JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[White privilege]

Airframes are too old unless we bring the flying hours of Mirage jets airframes to 'zero' we could not maintain it with routine overhauls, and for this to happen we actually have to produce all the essential and non-essential parts & elements in Pakistan with upgraded avionics. This mean we have to start a program similar to Israeli Kafir jet program which in modern age is like wasting the already meager financial resources of PAF.

Keep in mind Mirage fleet is already going through their last overhaul and this may give this fleet additional 5-7 years approximately.

How would we address our low level deep strike needs when Mirages finally retire?? Thunder is not meant to skim NOE 0r carry insane bomb loads. Will the focus completely shift to high level SOW delivery then?? How accurate and economical will that be??

 

[HRK]

How would we address our low level deep strike needs when Mirages finally retire??

Smart SOW weapons, and drones might be the alternative with minimum risk

 

[Khanivore]

 

[MIRauf]

How would we address our low level deep strike needs when Mirages finally retire?? Thunder is not meant to skim NOE 0r carry insane bomb loads. Will the focus completely shift to high level SOW delivery then?? How accurate and economical will that be??

Can you highlight as to what insane weapon load M-III/V carry beside RAAD ( likely just one ) and H2 type ( one / two ) ? It needs Wing Fuel tanks to stay airborne after take-off unless immediately gets juice via AAR. JF-17 can now carry H2 type, only thing left is RAAD and that is due to high ground clearance required by the weapon itself.

 

[syed_yusuf]

How would we address our low level deep strike needs when Mirages finally retire?? Thunder is not meant to skim NOE 0r carry insane bomb loads. Will the focus completely shift to high level SOW delivery then?? How accurate and economical will that be??

Raad, h2 and h4 have jf17 replacement.. but in scenario around Pakistan. We need truck load jet like mirage 3 and 5 to deliver poundage ..... I think PAF will try to keep mirage 5 flying as long as it can may be for another 10 years and hopefully by then mix of jf17 , j10c, 5th gen fighter and multitude of drones will take care of tactics

 

[Sinnerman108]

Can you highlight as to what insane weapon load M-III/V carry beside RAAD ( likely just one ) and H2 type ( one / two ) ? It needs Wing Fuel tanks to stay airborne after take-off unless immediately gets juice via AAR. JF-17 can now carry H2 type, only thing left is RAAD and that is due to high ground clearance required by the weapon itself.

The mirage is more effective bomb carrying platform per square inch of wing surface that JF-17,
The Mirage is more effective strike and retreat high speed platform than JF-17.
Mirage is more effective that high altitude due to it's aerodynamic configuration than the JF-17.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Can you highlight as to what insane weapon load M-III/V carry beside RAAD ( likely just one ) and H2 type ( one / two ) ? It needs Wing Fuel tanks to stay airborne after take-off unless immediately gets juice via AAR. JF-17 can now carry H2 type, only thing left is RAAD and that is due to high ground clearance required by the weapon itself.

Mirages can carry 10 CBUs which coupled with 2 x 30mm cannons vs a single 23mm for JF-17 makes it a much more formidable jet for ground attack missions, esp against soft targets and troop concentrations. How many drones would it require to do the same?

 

[PDF]

These are pretty much the new update on Block III I suppose:

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

The mirage is more effective bomb carrying platform per square inch of wing surface that JF-17,
The Mirage is more effective strike and retreat high speed platform than JF-17.
Mirage is more effective that high altitude due to it's aerodynamic configuration than the JF-17.

But Mirage have huge disadvantages too. while carrying 2 fuel tanks, its left with only 1 hard point that it can carry any ALCM. Secondly and more importantly, it will face severe challenges operating in dense EW environment. Its avionics are outdated. Lastly, the aircraft cannot even defend itself, It has no proper air to air capability. The BVR is missing as well. Agressor units may need to fire BVR missiles to put enemy defenders at defensive.

 

[Thrust_Vector998]

These are pretty much the new update on Block III I suppose:
View attachment 900140

How can thrust output go to 94KN for the same RD-93 rated at 86KN?

 

[PDF]

How can thrust output go to 94KN for the same RD-93 rated at 86KN?

From what I know, they tweaked to it to perform better at the cost of engine life down to 2200 from 4000.

 

[Thrust_Vector998]

From what I know, they tweaked to it to perform better at the cost of engine life down to 2200 from 4000.

If it's true then I think it's a good tradeoff

 

[MastanKhan]

How can thrust output go to 94KN for the same RD-93 rated at 86KN?

Hi,

Not too difficult.

 

[Trango Towers]

From what I know, they tweaked to it to perform better at the cost of engine life down to 2200 from 4000.

How is this possible? What are they doing to the engine to reduce life by almost 50%.

Have a read

How do you increase thrust in a jet engine?
All related (37)
Recommended






Kam Freddy
Studied Mechanical Engineering & Aircraft Maintenance Engineering (Graduated 2019)1y


The most popular method of Power Augmentation (for fighter jets especially) is undoubtedly the use of Afterburners.

F-15 taking off with afterburners
Fighter jets are usually equipped with a Low Bypass engines. Simply put, less air enters the secondary section. Most of air that gets sucked in goes through the primary section of the engine (the core). Military fighter jets use this type because it offers a good power to weight ratio.

Black arrow: Primary section (core).
White arrow: Secondary section - The air simply bypasses the core section of the engine so this air doesn’t go through compression
Continue Reading

2



3




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Military Airspace
Answered by
Ken VanderHorst

Author has 2.6K answers and 3.4M answer viewsUpdated Feb 9
There are only two way to increase thrust:

1. Increase mass flow rate. (accelerate a greater mass of air.)
2. Increase delta V. (accelerate the air mass to a higher speed.)

There are many many different ways to achieve the above. For example, when a turbojet engine is modified to become a turbo fan engine, the mass flow rate is increased. (and the delta V is reduced, but the mass flow rate increase is greater than the delta V reduction.) When an afterburner is added to an existing engine, the mass flow rate remains the same, but the delta V is increased. You can also increase the size of the engine, increase the turbine inlet temperature, increase the RPM of the engine, increase the compression ratio, add water injection, and a host of other detail changes that either increase 1 or 2 above, or both.

 

[Sinnerman108]

How is this possible? What are they doing to the engine to reduce life by almost 50%.

Have a read

How do you increase thrust in a jet engine?
All related (37)
Recommended



Kam Freddy
Studied Mechanical Engineering & Aircraft Maintenance Engineering (Graduated 2019)1y


The most popular method of Power Augmentation (for fighter jets especially) is undoubtedly the use of Afterburners.

F-15 taking off with afterburners
Fighter jets are usually equipped with a Low Bypass engines. Simply put, less air enters the secondary section. Most of air that gets sucked in goes through the primary section of the engine (the core). Military fighter jets use this type because it offers a good power to weight ratio.

Black arrow: Primary section (core).
White arrow: Secondary section - The air simply bypasses the core section of the engine so this air doesn’t go through compression
Continue Reading

2



3




Related questions (More answers below)
How do I increase a jet engine’s thrust & efficiency?
1,832 Views
What's the thrust of a moving jet engine?
978 Views
How does increasing the thrust of a jet engine affect the plane?
103 Views
What is the thrust of a jet engine?
2,488 Views
When is the jet engine thrust maximum?
1,395 Views



Military Airspace
Answered by
Ken VanderHorst

Author has 2.6K answers and 3.4M answer viewsUpdated Feb 9
There are only two way to increase thrust:

1. Increase mass flow rate. (accelerate a greater mass of air.)
2. Increase delta V. (accelerate the air mass to a higher speed.)

There are many many different ways to achieve the above. For example, when a turbojet engine is modified to become a turbo fan engine, the mass flow rate is increased. (and the delta V is reduced, but the mass flow rate increase is greater than the delta V reduction.) When an afterburner is added to an existing engine, the mass flow rate remains the same, but the delta V is increased. You can also increase the size of the engine, increase the turbine inlet temperature, increase the RPM of the engine, increase the compression ratio, add water injection, and a host of other detail changes that either increase 1 or 2 above, or both.

Thus the case for twin engine planes,
Our present day metallurgy can take us only so far, and to try juice out more thrust means compromising the engine's stability and life. ( Some thing that soviets still do ).

Have two engines instead; and have them perform at 75% only, that gives you more MTBF and more performance.