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Mosque is not a religious place, can be demolished any time: BJP leader Subramanian Swamy

So you want to change their perception forcefully?

Why do you assume the worst about us? Why would we use force? Have you seen any evidence of any? They will see that they are the same as us as they get better integrated with the rest of us and lose their persecutionary parnoia as a throwback to the Islam khatr mein line from Partition continuing to this day. For that to happen, the environment needs to be conducive, and the mind needs to be free of baggage. Hopefully both will happen.

What's wrong with seeing themselves as different

What's wrong with seeing themselves as the same?

they are different.

They are not. That is a Pakistani talking. Understandable, because that is the plinth on which Pakistan was created and you ceased to be Indian. But these are the inheritors of that part of Indic Hindu Islam which never bought into that warped theory. Ergo, what is second nature for you is alien for them. They see their faith as different. They never saw themselves as different. We are going to show them that their faith regardless, they always have been and will continue to be Hindu. And that need never clash with them following Islam.

So ''Hindu who follows Islam'' and ''Hindu who follows Sanatan Dharma'' is going to be written on ID cards?
Why not just use ''Hindu'' and ''Muslim'' instead?

This is not about divisive identity. This is about cohesive inclusive oneness. This is not about religion. This is about civilization. About our historic heritage. A proud living heritage.

All this is pointless. ''Indian'' should be enough if you want national unity or cultural pride or whatever.

Let us decide for ourselves what is pointless. We have a hugely more massive sense of national unity and cultural pride than you guys. So please excuse if we are polite in listening to your advice but not acting upon it.
 
You are referring to the Bohra tribe that is from Yemen I guess?

I realise that when invading armies come, they do not bring women with them. So their seed does mix with the local women.

But what is the percentage? How big were those armies? How big was India, even then? Like a drop in the ocean (pardon the pretty graphic pun).

Fact of the matter is that most subcontinental Muslims, barring the Pashtun and Baloch who are traditionally from Iranic stock, are of Indic blood.

Yes, if you do a genome map, some traces of Turkic blood or Iranic blood or even Mongol blood or maybe even Greek or Scythian blood would be there. But to stretch that link to that one long ago non-Indic male ancestor and say you are not of Indian blood is pretty ludicrous.

all across,right from gujarat to kerala,arab traders made the muslims.

Punjabi muslims as so many around here come from tribes like jatt/gujjar/dogar/shaikh which are all hindu castes, only few like syed/pathan/baloch/awan/arain supposedly have arab/turk/farsi origins.
 
Swamy's mosque comments create uproar in Rajya Sabha | Zee News
Last Updated: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 - 13:20

New Delhi: There was an uproar in the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday over comments by BJP leader Subramanian Swamy in Assam where he reportedly said mosques are not religious places.


"Secularism is the biggest strength of a democracy. If there is no secular character, there will be no democracy," Congress leader Pramod Tiwari said, raising the issue soon after the house met.

"They are talking about breaking mosques," Tiwari said as several opposition members joined him and created an uproar.

The members remained unrelenting even as Minister of State for Parliamentary Affairs Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said the members could discuss the issue.

Amid the commotion, the house was adjourned for ten minutes.

According to reports, Swamy, at a function in Guwahati, said mosques are not religious places but just buildings, and it can be demolished any time.

He also cited the example of mosques demolished for construction of roads in Saudi Arabia.

IANS
 
Why do you assume the worst about us? Why would we use force? Have you seen any evidence of any? They will see that they are the same as us as they get better integrated with the rest of us and lose their persecutionary parnoia as a throwback to the Islam khatr mein line from Partition continuing to this day. For that to happen, the environment needs to be conducive, and the mind needs to be free of baggage. Hopefully both will happen.
Rant wasn't needed.
Simple logic - they see themselves as different, not separate - them seeing themselves as different does not mean paranoia nor does it threaten your national integrity, so chill out a little.
What's wrong with seeing themselves as the same?
Nothing - but they don't. And there's nothing wrong with that either.
They are not.
Oh really? Do Sanatan Dharma-following regular Hindus pray Salah five times a day? Do they believe in the Prophet Muhammad?
Indian Muslims do - thus, Indian Muslims are different. It's completely nonsensical to say that Indian Muslims' and Hindus' (or Sanatan Dharmic people, or whatever you want to call them) religions are the same.
They are not. That is a Pakistani talking. Understandable, because that is the plinth on which Pakistan was created and you ceased to be Indian.
Most Muslims would say the same, regardless of being Pakistani. Unless you believe that all Muslims were once Hindu (in which case you may aswell declare the whole world to be Hindu), your argument is invalid.

But these are the inheritors of that part of Indic Hindu Islam which never bought into that warped theory.
What exactly is ''Indic Hindu Islam''?
They see their faith as different. They never saw themselves as different. We are going to show them that their faith regardless, they always have been and will continue to be Hindu.
Their faith is different - I never meant to say they were a different species or ethnicity or nationality or anything, of course they're Indians. Indian Muslims are Indian.
This is not about divisive identity. This is about cohesive inclusive oneness. This is not about religion. This is about civilization. About our historic heritage. A proud living heritage.
Different religious identities should not be considered as 'divisive'. Unity does not mean uniformity - it means the ability to overlook differences. I never questioned your historic heritage - I simply asked one question : why does your historic heritage/civilization/national unity have to be called Hindu? Why not simply use the word ''Indian'' to avoid confusion with the set of religious beliefs with the same name? Either that or officially rename your country to Hindustan, because for the rest of the world ''Hinduism'' is a religion, not a historic heritage.
And that need never clash with them following Islam.
So Hinduism is compatible with Islam, is that what you're trying to say? One simple question then: In your opinion, is the slaughter of cows allowed in Hinduism or not?
We have a hugely more massive sense of national unity and cultural pride than you guys.
Debatable.
Let us decide for ourselves what is pointless.
Go ahead, who's stopping you? Like I said before:
it's none of my concern.
 
@TankMan I am getting bored of this multiquote chakki peesing and peesing.

Do you want to continue this? I feel we are going in circles now.
 
@TankMan I am getting bored of this multiquote chakki peesing and peesing.

Do you want to continue this? I feel we are going in circles now.
In my opinion multi-quote chakki peecing is better than walls of text.
But no, no need to continue it - like I said, none of my concern. Just interesting to see others' opinions, which I have seen.
 
In my opinion multi-quote chakki peecing is better than walls of text.
But no, no need to continue it - like I said, none of my concern. Just interesting to see others' opinions, which I have seen.

Thanks buddy. I am with you on the walls of text. Just do not agree with your projection of a Pakistani Muslim point of view on to us Indians. Both Hindu Sanatan Dharmis and Hindu Muslims.
 
Just do not agree with your projection of a Pakistani Muslim point of view on to us Indians. Both Hindu Sanatan Dharmis and Hindu Muslims.
If I wanted to just project my point of view onto you and Indian Muslims, I wouldn't be asking for your opinion. The point of me discussing any of this was to see an Indian's point of view. I may disagree with it or have reservations about it but that too is just my opinion and my having an opinion does not mean I am trying to impose it on anybody.

Hope you understand.
 

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