MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[PakShaheen79]

Yes, we will have military quantity and quality advantage w.r.t Pakistan. But for India, the Chinese threat is larger.

For now, China has numbers in any kind of military hardware. We have quality. So the moment it is realized as you are saying that J-10 is superior to Eurofighter - there will be lot of panic. Because one thing that China can do very good - mass produce.

Infact, they (China) will massproduce the fighter quadrants the time it takes for India to just order new planes. And realisticly what else can India to counter that then - F22 is not available to india. PAKFA is only in works and it will take some time. LCA has release date of NEVER and FOREVER. So it is not going to get produced anytime soon.

If I am a pakistani, I will try to get numbers on pakistani side- any 3rd or 4th gen sold by other countries that are retired should be acquired in large numbers. This would increase more combat even though, Pak will lose more planes in case of the war. Remember, the objective of the war is to win not to calculate how many men are lost. Then sign an agreement with China framed like India-Russian treaty of 1971 and focus on growth. But realistically, for growth the Pakistan taliban has to go away and Pakistan will have to get rid of crazy mullah lawfully or politically. Also, if I am super smart, I will try to friend Iran to use against India.(To my knowledge, Iran is far more friendlier with India than with Pak). Pakistan will also have to find a voice of itself by getting ridself of America from its soil but that would mean forsaking 7.5 billion$. I dont know what establishment thinks (military, ISI and govt)?

If you are following news now a days... military has told government what it thinks about those US$7.5 billion.

To me only long run solution for Pakistan is to spend more and more on local R & D and facilities for this R & D.

Short term... I am not worried much until and unless nuclear balance there in region and mind you if Pakistan can have this for ever the danger of full scale war would be minimum.

 

[raveolution]

PAF recent or future gap vis a v IAF is nothing to do with mindset USA or GOP..

The fact is simply the FINANCIAL GAP between the 2 states is very large growing to enormous. If the 2 SOUTH ASIAN states maintain current trajectory in GDP growth by 2020 the GDP gap will be 10-1 as oppose 7-1 today.

Thats in one single decade.

Just imagine if IAF goes shopping with $100 billion in 2020 AND PAF cheif goes to same market with just $10 billion.

F16/52 gripens Typhoons and Rafael are all available to PAF just as easily as to india. Nobody has embargoed GOP.

THE PAF just don,t have the financial means to buy $80-90m dollar planes.

Thats why the Thunder at $12m each is so vital to future PAF doctrines

Apart from the western MRCA's prohibitive cost, PAF and GoP have clearly taken into account geo-political reasons as well. It does not probably want a repeat of the F16 episode. And you also have to take into account the western countries, most of who are thinking twice before selling anything to Pakistan (e.g. - U214). The perception of Pakistan internationally, although not completely justified is really really bad. The current govt. has done nothing to improve it but make it worse. And the best part is that you cannot blame Mr.10% alone cause he was elected democratically.

 

[rajeev]

If you are following news now a days... military has told government what it thinks about those US$7.5 billion.

Yes, I read the news. But seriously I did not like what they said. A clause saying army will not be allowed come in power or that civilan govt will control the army - is that so bad.

It is definitely good from Indian side though that an army general rules Pakistan, at least there is some peace. But for Pakistani people, I am guessing they would prefer democracy (?)

To me only long run solution for Pakistan is to spend more and more on local R & D and facilities for this R & D.

This is a costly affair. Even with all the resources, India has - there has always been two steps back and one step forward. Wont that be counterproductive for Pakistan then?

Short term... I am not worried much until and unless nuclear balance there in region and mind you if Pakistan can have this for ever the danger of full scale war would be minimum.

I hope that be the case. Peace is way better than war. But I am not sure what will happen if another Mumbai happens! Already there is lot of warning about the same, it is just waiting to happen.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Yes, I read the news. But seriously I did not like what they said. A clause saying army will not be allowed come in power or that civilan govt will control the army - is that so bad.

Well I wish if the wording of bill had same what you are saying. I am all up for democracy and army in control of a civilian government. Actually bill is asking for US consultation before promotions in army. Now tell me what this has to do with Civilian control over army.

It is definitely good from Indian side though that an army general rules Pakistan, at least there is some peace. But for Pakistani people, I am guessing they would prefer democracy (?)

Yeah democracy but one brought by vote not by NRO.

This is a costly affair. Even with all the resources, India has - there has always been two steps back and one step forward. Wont that be counterproductive for Pakistan then?

I think there are other factors too in Indian sides like being too ambitious without looking what we already had.

I hope that be the case. Peace is way better than war. But I am not sure what will happen if another Mumbai happens! Already there is lot of warning about the same, it is just waiting to happen.

Well, That will be totally disastrous for millions of people in this region. I agree peace is only way forward.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

so sad to see another thread infested with indian flamers.
Why does politics always has to come in every other non political discussions?

 

[Kompromat]

Please give me a reliable link saying that PAF would acquire a matching western MRCA after the Indians make their decision. Please read earlier in this thread that PAF has already passed over a few western options in favour of Chinese aircraft due to cost and geo-political considerations. The deal is that apart from J10, no other fighter is available for the PAF, not even the J11. And the J10 will only arrive in the PAF when China is able to sort out its engine issues and upgrade the aircraft to a true 4.5 gen fighter which is also not guaranteed by 2012-13 so that jets can start arriving by 2014-15.

EX: Air cheif Tanveer M.A has said in an interview '' that we are watching MRCA closely and we will take relevent decision after the selection of the Aircraft.""

I must not agree with you that there is not any option available for PAF other than F10/FC/20

The recent Deal with Lockheed martin for Block 52+ F16's is enough to deny your argument!!
EU is planning to give 300bn $ work to Build and sale EF2000 Eurofighter to ITS friendly Countires such as Pakistan and UAE and others.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/1312-eu-plans-sell-eurofighter-typhoon-pakistan-through-turkey.html

Go to the internal link:
Regards:

 

[raveolution]

EX: Air cheif Tanveer M.A has said in an interview '' that we are watching MRCA closely and we will take relevent decision after the selection of the Aircraft.""

I must not agree with you that there is not any option available for PAF other than F10/FC/20

The recent Deal with Lockheed martin for Block 52+ F16's is enough to deny your argument!!
EU is planning to give 300bn $ work to Build and sale EF2000 Eurofighter to ITS friendly Countires such as Pakistan and UAE and others.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/1312-eu-plans-sell-eurofighter-typhoon-pakistan-through-turkey.html

Go to the internal link:
Regards:

Can't understand where will the 100+ million USD per aircraft come from? If the PAF did want more F16's, they would have exercised their options for 18 more F16's. Please read what senior members in this forum think of the situation.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-jet-specifications-war-time-situation-2.html

 

[Kompromat]

Can't understand where will the 100+ million USD per aircraft come from? If the PAF did want more F16's, they would have exercised their options for 18 more F16's. Please read what senior members in this forum think of the situation.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-jet-specifications-war-time-situation-2.html

Its pathetic , At least they would not come from your pocket my dear friend.
i am intouch with the precious posts by senior members .

Their word is not the order of the day .
Regards:

 

[raveolution]

Its pathetic , At least they would not come from your pocket my dear friend.
i am intouch with the precious posts by senior members .

Their word is not the order of the day .
Regards:

and your word is? Peace

 

[PakShaheen79]

Can't understand where will the 100+ million USD per aircraft come from? If the PAF did want more F16's, they would have exercised their options for 18 more F16's. Please read what senior members in this forum think of the situation.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-jet-specifications-war-time-situation-2.html

Did you ever wounder how Pakistan built its nuclear and missile program against all odds?

 

[raveolution]

Did you ever wounder how Pakistan built its nuclear and missile program against all odds?

China & North Korea?? Lol.. Just kidding. Pakistan is bankrupt now, was not so earlier.

 

[MZUBAIR]

The typhoon is considered to be the most expensive aircraft of the lot with flyaway unit prices of around USD100 million each, with prices going up even further for smaller orders. The Rafale was considered and rejected due to the cost factor as well. The PAF has clearly stated its preference for more reasonable chinese aircraft. The Gripen uses many critical components which are of US origin and the PAF did not want to put any more eggs in the US basket apart from the F16's which are part of the US Aid package.

Pls correct me if my views are incorrect.

Your (bold) comment is incorrect.

"PAF is thinking to counter Indian 126 MRCA deal with western jet."

Yes Chinees products are good coz all are designed on Russian infrastructure, besides that Indian have all russian hets, IAF hav no western jet except (approx 60) Mirage 2000.

To countrer IAF Chinese jets are enough but yes PAF will go for western Rafeal or Eurofighter but first let IAF finalize MRCA.....

 

[pakpower]

Your (bold) comment is incorrect.

"PAF is thinking to counter Indian 126 MRCA deal with western jet."

Yes Chinees products are good coz all are designed on Russian infrastructure, besides that Indian have all russian hets, IAF hav no western jet except (approx 60) Mirage 2000.

To countrer IAF Chinese jets are enough but yes PAF will go for western Rafeal or Eurofighter but first let IAF finalize MRCA.....

Asslam o Alaikum my friends is that really 100% true news that after the finalization of MRCA 126 jet saga of india will PAF really go for Rafale or Eurofighter ?

I am asking this because I have read many threads and messages about PAF not having enough funds to get these beauties but now suddenly you are making a sort of statement that PAF will go either one of these two beauties do you have some credible source inside the PAF can you confirm this 100% ?

 

[AVIAN]

Your (bold) comment is incorrect.

"PAF is thinking to counter Indian 126 MRCA deal with western jet."

Your commenting that is decorated under Bold font won't make you either overtly correct either.

Yes Chinees products are good coz all are designed on Russian infrastructure, besides that Indian have all russian hets, IAF hav no western jet except (approx 60) Mirage 2000.

Hum!, so according to you Jaguars in IAF service are eastern?

To countrer IAF Chinese jets are enough but yes PAF will go for western Rafeal or Eurofighter but first let IAF finalize MRCA.....

If you are highly optimastic about PAF's choise of Typhoon or Rafale, then don't you think, it is highly pointless to await finalization of MRCA for IAF?

 

[Storm Force]

MZUBAIR.

Regarding Western jets

Jaguars like 120 in IAF are uk/french.

Sea Harriers armed with Derby missles nos 25+ Indian Navy.

infact 25% of IAF is Western