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Navy Chief quits over spate of submarine mishaps

We are not at war. During peace time 10 accidents in 7 months puts serious question mark over the safety standards and discipline. If these subs are so dangerous and unreliable why doesn't the Navy simply refuse to accept them as sea-worthy?
10 INCIDENTS- only 2 of which have cost lives (both being on Subs). Like I've said that these things do happen (wrt the surface vessels) but what has been happening on the Kilos is totally unacceptable and what I really fear is here the media and Indian people will lose sight of the real issue- it is NOT in any way a question of the IN's discipline but it is a question on why these aged subs are still in service. This without a doubt is the MOST SEVERE issue at hand. If the Scorpenes were in service and the Kilos retired then in the last 7 months you would have ZERO fatalities and 8 minor incidents that happen from time to time with all navies and are obviously going to happen to more active and larger navies like the IN.
 
hehehe...
this democrazy baccha....you cannot question defense ministry......:D:D

Baccha kisko bola be?
shaktiman-ajay-devgn.jpg
 
I am not stating for this accident....this is previous one....of warship collision not submarine...


here....:)
Naval warship INS Talwar collides with fishing trawler, four injured - Indian Express
Where does it say anything about Naval personnel being drunk on duty? This is a very specific example with a very specific set of circumstances around it and a BoI is looking into the matter so what is your point exactly? These things happen especially with large slow moving ships and tiny UNLIT vessels in CONGESTED waters.

After Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha, navy vice chief Dhowan, Eastern VA Anil Chopra, Southern VA Satish Soni in line of seniority. So who is govt choice?
Does Govt get a say? They don't get a say in either the IAF or IA Chief apportionment, it simply down to seniority at the time- I don't see why this would be any different with the IN.
 
I didn't get your notification...again.:(

On topic: I think it's the right decision. Accountability is the price to pay in High Offices. It's not like he wasn't competent or capable enough for the job, but the Navy IS his responsibility, and the number of slip-ups has been rather high in his tenure. It sent the right message, that nobody is above scrutiny in the Armed Forces, and poor performance is not tolerated.

But questions need to be asked on why the buck stops with the Chiefs of Armed Forces and not the Defence Ministry. After all it's not the fault of Armed Forces that they're still burdened with some obsolete and substandard machinery.
hehehe...
this democrazy baccha....you cannot question defense ministry......:D:D

Noooo... I guess ministry had warned IN many times about it.And its seems Admiral had brushed aside all the reports.Three months after the Sindhurakshak accident AK Antony had asked the navy brass to "optimally operate" the country's assets and ensure these were not "frittered away." Joshi is said to have resented this perceived insinuation that the force wasn't conducting itself professionally.Then Joshi virtually brushed aside the minister's concerns...stressing that the navy's track record was "not that bad" compared with international navies. A rash of accidents that followed set off alarm bells in the ministry, with the minister giving a piece of his mind to Joshi on several occasions.
FYI combined cost of warships involved in recent accidents is pegged at more than Rs. 10,000 crore...
Just 3 weeks back Antony had asked the navy to clean up its act saying he wasn't satisfied with the force's functioning.
So theres a reason why Admiral quit....its the shambolic performance of Navy.:(
 
Baccha kisko bola be?
shaktiman-ajay-devgn.jpg
Sry...Ajayman.......:D:D

Where does it say anything about Naval personnel being drunk on duty? This is a very specific example with a very specific set of circumstances around it and a BoI is looking into the matter so what is your point exactly? These things happen especially with large slow moving ships and tiny UNLIT vessels in CONGESTED waters.
read the full post before commenting.....
I said its unconfirmed news.........
 
came on Topic.
I am eating BRITANNIA, Good Day Cashew Cookies made in india , right now here in karachi, Pakistan
what? Really? Indian food products allowed in Pakistan?
 
That was a frustrated layman post bruv. I know the forces are professional and efficient. It's just that IN has been in news lately for the reasons they shouldn't have been. hence the frustration.
Of course and this is for a combination of reasons 1) the IN is larger than it has ever been before so even if the accident rate is the same as it has always been the number of actual incidents will be higher 2) the Indian media are now very, VERY active (more than it has ever been) and sensationalist by nature so cover such incidents heavily but often don't contextualise them 3) a lot of these incidents are collisions involving smaller vessels and as this is simply down to the fact there are now more small vessels in Indian waters than there has ever been but most of them don't conform to even the most basic precautions like LIGHTING. More IN vessels+more private vessels (not adhering to safety norms)= more such incidents. Also notice how a lot of these incidents happen with the Western fleet and specifically those based out of Mumbai i.e. some of the most congested waters in the world.
 
10 INCIDENTS- only 2 of which have cost lives (both being on Subs). Like I've said that these things do happen (wrt the surface vessels) but what has been happening on the Kilos is totally unacceptable and what I really fear is here the media and Indian people will lose sight of the real issue- it is NOT in any way a question of the IN's discipline but it is a question on why these aged subs are still in service. This without a doubt is the MOST SEVERE issue at hand. If the Scorpenes were in service and the Kilos retired then in the last 7 months you would have ZERO fatalities and 8 minor incidents that happen from time to time with all navies and are obviously going to happen to more active and larger navies like the IN.

Still the question remains: Why has the Navy accepted to operate the subs if those are not sea-worthy? What happened to "Quality Control"? The other accidents involved modern surface ships of India and even though there were no fatalities, those incidences do not put the IN in good light.

If there are problems those problems must be raised clearly, but we cannot expect much from people who lick politicians' feet for promotion and kick-backs, the top brass of the armed forces is full of such people. Nobody cares about the servicemen.

The Navy chief did not resign voluntarily, he was asked to resign.
 
Noooo... I guess ministry had warned IN many times about it.And its seems Admiral had brushed aside all the reports.Three months after the Sindhurakshak accident AK Antony had asked the navy brass to "optimally operate" the country's assets and ensure these were not "frittered away." Joshi is said to have resented this perceived insinuation that the force wasn't conducting itself professionally.Then Joshi virtually brushed aside the minister's concerns...stressing that the navy's track record was "not that bad" compared with international navies. A rash of accidents that followed set off alarm bells in the ministry, with the minister giving a piece of his mind to Joshi on several occasions.
FYI combined cost of warships involved in recent accidents is pegged at more than Rs. 10,000 crore...
Just 3 weeks back Antony had asked the navy to clean up its act saying he wasn't satisfied with the force's functioning.
So theres a reason why Admiral quit....its the shambolic performance of Navy.:(
actually...what I think is....
navy fleet is expanding at very fast rate....and we are not able to develop our human resource at the pace....
we need able men to be captain of every ship.......but many new guys are getting promoted at fast pace...
and all this responsibility is not easy to bear......
though same is not true for submarines.....but you know they are very old....and are refitted ....so may be there is some battery problem in these ....:(
 
read the full post before commenting.....
I said its unconfirmed news.........
Naval warship INS Talwar collides with fishing trawler, four injured - Indian Express

I read the entire article, now please point to exactly where it mentions anything about officers being drunk on duty?!


What I feel the need to highlight from this article:

The Navy has ordered a Board of Inquiry to ascertain the reasons behind the incident, sources said.

Navy sources said the mishap took place as the fishing trawler was operating without lights and could not be seen in the dark.

Navy Chief Admiral D K Joshi asserted that Navy's record was "not all that bad" in terms of accidents when compared to other navies in the world.


Naval warship INS Talwar collides with fishing trawler, four injured - Indian Express
 
Of course and this is for a combination of reasons 1) the IN is larger than it has ever been before so even if the accident rate is the same as it has always been the number of actual incidents will be higher 2) the Indian media are now very, VERY active (more than it has ever been) and sensationalist by nature so cover such incidents heavily but often don't contextualise them 3) a lot of these incidents are collisions involving smaller vessels and as this is simply down to the fact there are now more small vessels in Indian waters than there has ever been but most of them don't conform to even the most basic precautions like LIGHTING. More IN vessels+more private vessels (not adhering to safety norms)= more such incidents. Also notice how a lot of these incidents happen with the Western fleet and specifically those based out of Mumbai i.e. some of the most congested waters in the world.
man you are younger than me in age ... but you I respect you knowledge in terms of depth and content. You don't have to counter my point. I am an avid reader of your posts.... (no homo) :P
 
Naval warship INS Talwar collides with fishing trawler, four injured - Indian Express

I read the entire article, now please point to exactly where it mentions anything about officers being drunk on duty?!


What I feel the need to highlight from this article:

The Navy has ordered a Board of Inquiry to ascertain the reasons behind the incident, sources said.

Navy sources said the mishap took place as the fishing trawler was operating without lights and could not be seen in the dark.

Navy Chief Admiral D K Joshi asserted that Navy's record was "not all that bad" in terms of accidents when compared to other navies in the world.


Naval warship INS Talwar collides with fishing trawler, four injured - Indian Express
and you think navy is going to say their officer were drunk.....
I know this report....do you think I don't know to read....when I posted the link........
I say again ...its a unconfirmed source......do you think this indian express is unconfirmed source......
 
Reports and interviews are coming citing DK Joshi was made a scapegoat by MoD for being an upright-clean-outspoken officer over the unfortunate event.
 
what? Really? Indian food products allowed in Pakistan?
why not ???
yes Indian food allowed in Pakistan, imported via Dubai, I like Haldi Ram Nimco,
and when onion and tomato are short in Indian market we export to India and than over crop of onion and tomatoes is affected when we import via wahga border from India
 
actually...what I think is....
navy fleet is expanding at very fast rate....and we are not able to develop our human resource at the pace....
we need able men to be captain of every ship.......but many new guys are getting promoted at fast pace...
and all this responsibility is not easy to bear......
though same is not true for submarines.....but you know they are very old....and are refitted ....so may be there is some battery problem in these ....:(
Hmmmm.
True.

Reports and interviews are coming citing DK Joshi was made a scapegoat by MoD for being an upright-clean-outspoken officer over the unfortunate event.

I am not sure about this there was this article which was published in feb 4th this month.....all these were warning signs.
A rash of accidents involving India’s leading warships may have far-reaching implications not only for the country’s security but also the navy’s future hierarchy.

Causing severe embarrassment to the navy, the accidents --- nine in six months -- have taken operational warships out of active duty and knocked some high-flying officers out of the race for top ranks.

At least five warship skippers have been stripped of command over the last 18 months, including JPS Virk, captain of INS Airavat, which ran aground off the Visakhapatnam coast last week.



“Some of the officers sacked from command were poised for senior ranks. The complexion of naval hierarchy is beginning to change,” a navy officer said.

Captain Gopal Suri of INS Talwar, which rammed a trawler on December 23, 2013, is staring at a court martial. But one of his predecessors, Vice Admiral Satish Soni, is tipped to take over as the navy chief next year.

It is learnt that the defence ministry is shocked by the turn of events and has taken umbrage at the navy’s state of denial.

Refusing to accept that the navy was passing through a testing phase, a senior officer had said accidents took place on the highways too. “That’s a lame excuse,” said a defence ministry official. “Seasoned mariners are expected to have higher professional standards than truck drivers.”

The accidents have also brought under scrutiny the navy’s criteria for picking officers to command warships. The ministry is likely to ask the navy to bring in a more rigourous system to assign warship command, as many incumbents haven’t lived up to the standards expected of them.

Suri and Deepak Bisht, captain of INS Betwa, were removed from command in January, with the navy holding them responsible for disturbing lapses.
Stormy weather for top navy officers after accidents



And this one was published on feb 2nd
Navy may have itself to blame for series of recent accidents - Hindustan Times
 

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