Navy needs more Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups

[Skull and Bones]

Actually its the navy that we won't be able to match them with. They already have close to 80 submarines and are churning out subs and surface vessels like hot cakes from their shipyards. The good news is that geographically the navies are so far separated that neither of them can threaten the other in the other's backyard. We will soon have credible deterrent capability against them in air and land forces, if all aquisitions and capability building go according to plan.

You need to check that highlighted statement of your buddy, most of their attack submarines are Romeo class, early Kilo class subs. They are very noisy and immune to detection, only Song class submarines with AIP is a credible sub.

We need more diesel electric subs with AIP, and DRDO has a very advanced research facility on fuel cells.

 

[Archie]

I don't know what the author thinks , but getting an Aircraft carrier is just one of parts of operating an effective CBG
An Indian CBG in 2015 will include 2 Kolkata class Destroyers , 2 Talwar class Frigates , 1 Shivalik Class Frigate , 2 Type 28 ASW Corvette , 1 Tanker , 1 SSN or 2 SSK , while the carrier Group will comprise of 20 Mig29K and 4 AEW + 6 ASW Helis
Also indian Navy doesnot want to have half our present and projected fleet to be deployed on carrier duty
As per admiral Suresh Mehta , " Today and even in 2015 India would be able to deploy only 1 CBG Effectively without over stretching the navy "
India will be able to deploy 2 CBG simultaneously only in 2022 , when number of Principle surface combatants increase from 20 at present to over 30 in 2022

Also IAC2 will not enter service in 2017
That was actually a Plan when the keel was laid for IAC1 in 2009 and depended on the order being placed for IAC2 IN 2011 . as of October , last yr IAC2 has been Delayed to at least 2022-24 , with order being placed after 2014-15 thats coz

Indian navy has other Priorities and only 50 Billion USD to be spent on Capital acquisition between 2007-22
with following ships already sanctioned and more IMPORTANT THAN a third carrier

7 P-17A Frigates - 8 Billion USD
4 P-15B Destroyers - 6 Billion USD
6 P-75I SSK - 10 Billion USD
8 P-28A/B ASW Corvettes - 2 Billion USD
6 Mine Hunters - 1 Billion USD
4 LPD/LPH - 4 Billion USD
90 Multirole Helis - 4 Billion USD
57 LUH - 600 Million USD
24 P8I Poseidon - 6 Billion USD
5 AEW Helis - 200 Million USD
22 N LCA - 800 Million USD
40 N MRCA - 5 Billion USD

As u can see , there is no funds left for IAC2
ADD TO THAT , there is the Indian SSN Project which will require 9-12 Billion USD for Designing and Building 4 SSN , which are required to provide escort to indian CBGs ,funding for this project , like the IAC2 project has nor been approved and will be taken for approval after the 2014 general elections

 

[Abingdonboy]

The IN Chief had said not too long ago long-terms plans for 2030 was t have atleast 6 CBGs. Understanding that at any one time not all the carriers will be ready to be deployed with ships undergoing servicing and upgrades. It will be interesting to see what the IN has planned for IAC-2 as all reports are that the ship will be significantly larger and possibly the first IN ACC to be CATOBAR configured since INS VIKRANT possibly with EMALS (which IN has apparently shown deep interest in). Also IN has sent out RFIs for N-MMRCA to operate of future IACs with the Mig-29Ks purely for IAC-1 and Vikramditya.

 

[janon]

You need to check that highlighted statement of your buddy, most of their attack submarines are Romeo class, early Kilo class subs. They are very noisy and immune to detection, only Song class submarines with AIP is a credible sub.

We need more diesel electric subs with AIP, and DRDO has a very advanced research facility on fuel cells.

Yes, most of their subs are ageing and outdated. However, they do have close to 80 subs, with many more in the pipeline.

The newer ones are going to replace the older ones in service, and numerically their fleet will continue to be 5 times larger than ours for the foreseeable future.

 

[sancho]

Yes, most of their subs are ageing and outdated. However, they do have close to 80 subs, with many more in the pipeline.

The newer ones are going to replace the older ones in service, and numerically their fleet will continue to be 5 times larger than ours for the foreseeable future.

The numbers are not that important, since not all of these subs are meant for be blue water / long distance operations, so mainly SSBNs, SSNs and the new AIP subs will be the main opponents for IN. That reduces the numbers by far, but since those are their most capable subs, it will be even more difficult to find and destroy them, especially in such a large area. That's why we need credible and long range ASW capability in first place!
Also PLANs main opponent is not IN, but US, Japanese, S. Korean and to some extend even Russian navy, they could never use all of them only against us. It's always one thing to compare the numbers on paper, but another when you think about it with strategic needs behind it.
In the long term their carriers will find their way to the Indian Ocean as well, because PLAN can't afford to give IN superiority in this strategically important area, but that will take time and that's what IN is preparing for with IAC2.

 

[Archie]

The IN Chief had said not too long ago long-terms plans for 2030 was t have atleast 6 CBGs. Understanding that at any one time not all the carriers will be ready to be deployed with ships undergoing servicing and upgrades. It will be interesting to see what the IN has planned for IAC-2 as all reports are that the ship will be significantly larger and possibly the first IN ACC to be CATOBAR configured since INS VIKRANT possibly with EMALS (which IN has apparently shown deep interest in). Also IN has sent out RFIs for N-MMRCA to operate of future IACs with the Mig-29Ks purely for IAC-1 and Vikramditya.

It is never what the navy chief want , but what the MOD wants

Navy chief might want 6 carriers by 2030 ,but MOD has till now given the go ahead for only 3, ie Vikramaditya , Vikrant and IAC 2 , with IAC 2 actually entering service in 2022-24
it is Possible that MOD might OK the IAC 3 in 2020 after the launch of IAC 2 , and we could see IAC 3 which will be about the same size as IAC 2 , entering service by 2030


Another thing that you guys should note is that the Present Navy chief and the Last 2 ones have been naval aviators having spent significant time with Vikrant I and Viraat , this has been the reason for there love for Deploying multiple CBGs , even if it comes at the cost of Submarine force

This is the reason why the carrier lobby wants the submarine force to comprise of 12 modern SSKs and 4 SSNs apart from 4 SSBNs
While the submarine force wants 15 modern SSKs and 6 SSN apart from 4 SSBNs

The carrier Lobby feels that they can get an additional Aircaft carrier by reducing the number of planned SSKs by 3 and SSNs by 2 , which will save 7-8 Billion USD

Infact the funds for IAC 2 will partly come at the cost of reducing the SSNs to be inducted from 6 to 4 , which has been aproved by MOD

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You need to check that highlighted statement of your buddy, most of their attack submarines are Romeo class, early Kilo class subs. They are very noisy and immune to detection, only Song class submarines with AIP is a credible sub.

We need more diesel electric subs with AIP, and DRDO has a very advanced research facility on fuel cells.

Submarines of the People's Liberation Army Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of our diesel subs are Kilos or Songs. 2 Yuan, 20 Song, 12 Kilo, 18 Romeo.

We also have nuclear subs which IN has 0 functional.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

IN should not even think of the South China Sea for now. Well, it can, but it will just result in additional poverty, and just some more food for ASBMs, the PLAAF and our subs.

Are you worried about our poverty or our ever growing ambition to match Chinese Naval dominance in Chinese sea ??Make it clear in your mind that which one is bothering you more.
Who will become whose fodder ?Let that be decided by better strategist at the moment of truth.Our sub-sniffing Orions would take care of your underwater strength, sooner you mind it better it would be for regional peace.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

A number of factors need to be considered here. It is not just about making one, we will be able to make a nuclear powered carrier, no doubts about that. But do we need one? Nuclear powered carriers are phenomenally expensive and what advantage do they give you? Longer range before refueling, theoretically infinite range. They can therefore remain operational for longer periods without needing a break. But are all the warships in the carrier battle group nuclear powered? No. So, while the carrier itself can go on and on and on, one has to refuel the accompanying warships frequently. Then the humans abroad the CBG are not nuclear powered and they need frequent replenishment. There is a limit to how long food stuff can be stocked abroad. Ask any soldier what he thinks of the canned food on high altitude posts where they are stocked in the summer to last out the winters.

So, despite the nuclear powered carrier, the CBG has to stop in friendly ports frequently to replenish and refuel as the carrier can't go on alone. What is the point of incurring phenomenal expenditure and make a nuclear powered carrier when the main advantage that it gives you, is negated by its non nuclear companions. The second point is that why do we need a nuclear powered carrier at all? Are we planning to send it to the Atlantic? Or the South Pacific? One nuke carrier will use up the entire budget of the IN leaving nothing for anything else.

I would beg to differ,by the time frame of 2025-30 we would have adequate number of nuclear subs which could accompany our sole nuclear carrier in the region where refueling could be the problem or doing so could significantly reduce the efficiency of our naval force or say loose the advances gained after long battle.Nuclear IAC would be one time investment,in the longer run it would be more cost effective and make us less dependent on middle east brotherhood in crunch situations.
Accompanying ships can be refuled by using accompanying INS shakti carrying 15,000 tons of fuel or even heavier ships by 2025.
If canned food can win you a battle then I don't think our sailors would mind that.

Who has foreseen the future??Need may arise that our naval forces may have to operate further from our sores for prolonged period.Better be prepared than feel sorry!

INS Shakti

 

[zer_0]

^^

thats huge!!!!!!!

any info on this.... i searched but found nothing????

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Submarines of the People's Liberation Army Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of our diesel subs are Kilos or Songs. 2 Yuan, 20 Song, 12 Kilo, 18 Romeo.

We also have nuclear subs which IN has 0 functional.

Correction,the Indian Navy has one nuclear attack submarine operational(INS Chakra).It left base with Indian submariners couple of weeks ago for the Indian mainland.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

any info on this.... i searched but found nothing????

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