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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

but in actual dog fights, how much probability there is that a F-16 pilot will fire all its 9 missiles before being hit by some other dude? :what: im not saying that more hard points is not an advantage, but in actual warfare i think F-16s wont achieve superiority over Jf-17 on the basis of hardpoints :no:

please also note that more than half of the indian air-air missiles are not even currently in working conditions​
 
Hi,

Air to ground or anti ship attack----the plane doing the primary strike on the target would carry the primary strike weapons---smart bombs or anti ship missiles---extra fuel tanks and maybe two wvr missiles maybe not---it will only be loaded for the job at hand---support planes will have whatever is needed--bvr's wvr's etc etc---.

The pilot going in against an sea / ocean going target knows in his heart that he has already punched his one way ticket---he knows, he is not coming back---his goal is how to get to his target and deliver the weapons and destroy the enemy---he is concerned about enemy planes pouncing upon him----.

American f 16's delivering smart weapons during the gulf war had bare minimum defencive weapons load.

Correct,

Israeli F-16 were loaded without any defensive weapon in 1982 when they attacked Iraqi reactor in outskirts of Baghdad. Additional plane were there alongside with AA missiles.
 
Fighting Falcons tackle ' SEAD / DEAD' mission



The model of the F-16 Fighting Falcon offers cutting-edge war-time fighting capabilities. Three new upgrades have helped the aircraft here transform from suppressing enemy air defenses to destroying enemy air defenses.The current USAF wild weasel aircraft is the F-16cj Fighting Falcon (the block 50/52 F-16). They took over this role from the F-4G Phantom. As far as I know, the F-16CJ has no additional internally mounted equipment that makes it suitable for the wild weasel role. Of course they train to fulfill this mission, carry the HARM and dedicated electronic pods that help them with this mission. But the F-4G had the AN/APR-38 RHAW (Radar Homing and Warning System) which replaced the 20mm cannon in the Phantom design, was specifically designed for the SEAD/DEAD role

"With the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, the targeting pod and the Link 16, we can find something faster, share the information quicker (and) more accurately, and destroy it more unequivocally," said Lt. Col. John Montgomery, 55th Fighter Squadron commander.

The cueing system upgrade on a helmet shows heads-up display data on the helmet visor and allows the pilot to select a target without changing the jet's direction. The system enables the pilot to visually identify, lock the weapons system on and engage an air or ground target without looking through the heads-up display on the aircraft itself.

When seconds count in combat encounters, the system gives the F-16 pilot an exceptional edge, said Col. Philip Ruhlman, 20th Fighter Wing commander.

The targeting pod is another upgrade incorporated on the aircraft. It has a forward-looking infrared sensor which displays an infrared image of the target for the pilot. The pod helps with precise delivery of laser-guided munitions by using a laser to determine range to a target and to the ground, said Maj. Anthony Roberson, 20th Operations Support Squadron weapons and training flight commander.

In the future, pilots will have even greater capability with an advanced targeting pod known as the Sniper XR.

"The Sniper will give us a 5-fold increase over our current targeting capability. Because of our use of the (current pod) and our focus on training, Shaw's pilots are already prepared for Sniper delivery," Maj. Roberson said.

The third upgrade for the aircraft is the Link 16. The Link 16 allows aircraft to share cockpit data and lets pilots merge into one display what all the airplanes are seeing. The data link helps pilots quickly gain situational awareness, and it gives them a combat edge in having complete knowledge of the battle space around them.

Although each upgrade has helped in developing the dominance of F-16s, it is the combination of the three that has given the aircraft tactical superiority.

"The technical transformation of the F-16CJ has enabled evolutionary changes beyond its counter-air mission," Colonel Ruhlman said. "Current capabilities now allow for a natural progression to fully incorporate counter-land roles of close air support and precision interdiction in addition to a foundation of SEAD (and) DEAD excellence.

"This provides the combatant commander an exceptional range of capability from which to execute key roles and missions, all the while force multiplying limited assets across a wide spectrum of threats and employment challenges,
 
Fighting Falcons tackle ' SEAD / DEAD' mission



The model of the F-16 Fighting Falcon offers cutting-edge war-time fighting capabilities. Three new upgrades have helped the aircraft here transform from suppressing enemy air defenses to destroying enemy air defenses.The current USAF wild weasel aircraft is the F-16cj Fighting Falcon (the block 50/52 F-16). They took over this role from the F-4G Phantom. As far as I know, the F-16CJ has no additional internally mounted equipment that makes it suitable for the wild weasel role. Of course they train to fulfill this mission, carry the HARM and dedicated electronic pods that help them with this mission. But the F-4G had the AN/APR-38 RHAW (Radar Homing and Warning System) which replaced the 20mm cannon in the Phantom design, was specifically designed for the SEAD/DEAD role

"With the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, the targeting pod and the Link 16, we can find something faster, share the information quicker (and) more accurately, and destroy it more unequivocally," said Lt. Col. John Montgomery, 55th Fighter Squadron commander.

The cueing system upgrade on a helmet shows heads-up display data on the helmet visor and allows the pilot to select a target without changing the jet's direction. The system enables the pilot to visually identify, lock the weapons system on and engage an air or ground target without looking through the heads-up display on the aircraft itself.

When seconds count in combat encounters, the system gives the F-16 pilot an exceptional edge, said Col. Philip Ruhlman, 20th Fighter Wing commander.

The targeting pod is another upgrade incorporated on the aircraft. It has a forward-looking infrared sensor which displays an infrared image of the target for the pilot. The pod helps with precise delivery of laser-guided munitions by using a laser to determine range to a target and to the ground, said Maj. Anthony Roberson, 20th Operations Support Squadron weapons and training flight commander.

In the future, pilots will have even greater capability with an advanced targeting pod known as the Sniper XR.

"The Sniper will give us a 5-fold increase over our current targeting capability. Because of our use of the (current pod) and our focus on training, Shaw's pilots are already prepared for Sniper delivery," Maj. Roberson said.

The third upgrade for the aircraft is the Link 16. The Link 16 allows aircraft to share cockpit data and lets pilots merge into one display what all the airplanes are seeing. The data link helps pilots quickly gain situational awareness, and it gives them a combat edge in having complete knowledge of the battle space around them.

Although each upgrade has helped in developing the dominance of F-16s, it is the combination of the three that has given the aircraft tactical superiority.

"The technical transformation of the F-16CJ has enabled evolutionary changes beyond its counter-air mission," Colonel Ruhlman said. "Current capabilities now allow for a natural progression to fully incorporate counter-land roles of close air support and precision interdiction in addition to a foundation of SEAD (and) DEAD excellence.

"This provides the combatant commander an exceptional range of capability from which to execute key roles and missions, all the while force multiplying limited assets across a wide spectrum of threats and employment challenges,

Thanks for posting

F-16.. Truly a legend dancing in the skies making its enemies scared like hell.:cheers: Its war record speaks its self more than anybody else.
 
but in actual dog fights, how much probability there is that a F-16 pilot will fire all its 9 missiles before being hit by some other dude? :what: im not saying that more hard points is not an advantage, but in actual warfare i think F-16s wont achieve superiority over Jf-17 on the basis of hardpoints :no:

Mate, Even in WVR combat F-16 don't need to fire all its 9 missiles (there will not be 9 WVR BTW :agree:) F-16's latest versions are equipped with enough goodies to avoid being locked easily. Actually this is a relative to which fighter and missile F-16 facing in this WVR engagement and same apply to JF-17. F-16 not only has more hard point but also has a monstrously proven power plant by GE still it is to be known how RD-93 is reliable.
 
Thanks for posting

F-16.. Truly a legend dancing in the skies making its enemies scared like hell.:cheers: Its war record speaks its self more than anybody else.


Action speakes louder then words.....your words are always precious for me:smitten: ....but pls also press thanks button......:agree:
 
Mate, Even in WVR combat F-16 don't need to fire all its 9 missiles (there will not be 9 WVR BTW :agree:) F-16's latest versions are equipped with enough goodies to avoid being locked easily. Actually this is a relative to which fighter and missile F-16 facing in this WVR engagement and same apply to JF-17. F-16 not only has more hard point but also has a monstrously proven power plant by GE still it is to be known how RD-93 is reliable.

thanks for correcting me there as im a real immmature with these technichal know hows of aircrafts :cheers: but i was talking about a situation where our front line fighters and interceptors have to face our neighbour's monster Su-30 mkis and most probably Hornet, the escape probability of either F-16 or Jf-17 minimzes against these giants, in either BVR or WVR (for obvious reasons)
 
thanks for correcting me there as im a real immmature with these technichal know hows of aircrafts :cheers: but i was talking about a situation where our front line fighters and interceptors have to face our neighbour's monster Su-30 mkis and most probably Hornet, the escape probability of either F-16 or Jf-17 minimzes against these giants, in either BVR or WVR (for obvious reasons)

First of all there is no way PAF and IAF in future will go in WVR that easily. FC-20, F-16 JF-17 would be backed by Erieye and would be up against MKI, MRCA, Mig-29, Mirage2000 backed up by Phalcon. So you can see the chances of WVR are minimum.

PAF has a defensive doctrine so it will not attack in most of the casaes. Primary task would be Denying Air superiority to IAF, eliminate IAF fighters as much as possible while remaining inside or close to international border... In presence of SAMs it will pain for any AF who go inside enemy territory and attack its enemy's ground assets and take on enemy's fighters in the air.
 
Hi,

Air to ground or anti ship attack----the plane doing the primary strike on the target would carry the primary strike weapons---smart bombs or anti ship missiles---extra fuel tanks and maybe two wvr missiles maybe not---it will only be loaded for the job at hand---support planes will have whatever is needed--bvr's wvr's etc etc---.

The pilot going in against an sea / ocean going target knows in his heart that he has already punched his one way ticket---he knows, he is not coming back---his goal is how to get to his target and deliver the weapons and destroy the enemy---he is concerned about enemy planes pouncing upon him----.

American f 16's delivering smart weapons during the gulf war had bare minimum defencive weapons load.

originally posted by PakSaheen
Correct,

Israeli F-16 were loaded without any defensive weapon in 1982 when they attacked Iraqi reactor in outskirts of Baghdad. Additional plane were there alongside with AA missiles.

but sir MastanKhan and PakSaheen, bro do you think that we have the luxury to conduct additional number of planes to escort the naval strike missions,,
i dont think so, if we need two or three squadrons of JF17 to cover our coast line we will nedd amlost same number to additional A2A role JF squadrons to protect them. sir mastan this wont only add to the purchasing cost but alos the maintainance and running cost will go high.
on the other hand we can have an easier and simpler solution if JF17 manage to increase on its hardpoints. i mean with 9 hardpoints, it can carry two fuel tanks, two BVRAAMS two WVRAAM and still have three slots left to be filled by either three AShM or two missiles and one additional fuel tank. i know this sounds a lot of pay load but with a more poerfull engine on card it is very likely to happen!

what do you think?? (PakSaheen and Sir. MastanKhan)

regards!
 
Frankly, I'm competely oblivious to the f-16 blk 70 you guys are talking about. A f-16 with AESA? Is that what it is?

July 23, 2009 (by Asif Shamim) - Northrop Grumman Corporation's newest active electronically scanned array (AESA) fighter sensor, the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), has been successfully installed on a F-16 at Edwards Air Force Base.



The Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) from Northrop Grumman will be a full performance fire control Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) derived from proven AESA technology for F-16 aircraft. In November, SABR began a series of flight demonstrations aboard the company's test aircraft, successfully detecting and displaying multiple aerial targets and generating high resolution Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) ground maps.

"The fit-check completed on June 29, is another important milestone leading up to a planned F-16 flight demonstration later this year," said Arlene Camp, director of Advanced F-16 Radar Programs at Northrop Grumman's Aerospace Systems Division. "Installation took less than five hours and assessed SABR's design goals to integrate seamlessly within existing F-16 Block 50/52 physical constraints for interface to aircraft power, cooling, and avionics."

The aircraft was returned to original configuration after the installation evaluation.

"Northrop Grumman is the sole provider of radars for the F-16 and for over 30 years has continually improved the F-16 radar's performance and reliability. SABR is Northrop Grumman's latest investment towards enhancing and sustaining the F-16's combat capability for decades to come," added Camp.

Although designed specifically for the F-16, SABR is scalable and adaptable to other platforms and missions. In comparison to the mechanically-scanned array radars it is designed to replace, the new radar will provide increased performance, multi-functionality and greater reliability.

With a greater detection and tracking range, high-resolution SAR maps, and interleaved mode operations it will provide pilots with better situational awareness and all-environment precision strike capability.
 
but sir MastanKhan and PakSaheen, bro do you think that we have the luxury to conduct additional number of planes to escort the naval strike missions,,
i dont think so, if we need two or three squadrons of JF17 to cover our coast line we will nedd amlost same number to additional A2A role JF squadrons to protect them. sir mastan this wont only add to the purchasing cost but alos the maintainance and running cost will go high.
on the other hand we can have an easier and simpler solution if JF17 manage to increase on its hardpoints. i mean with 9 hardpoints, it can carry two fuel tanks, two BVRAAMS two WVRAAM and still have three slots left to be filled by either three AShM or two missiles and one additional fuel tank. i know this sounds a lot of pay load but with a more poerfull engine on card it is very likely to happen!

what do you think?? (PakSaheen and Sir. MastanKhan)

regards!

Actually you are correct about making thunder to carry more weapons. Ideally what we need a plane like JH-7A, F-18 like thing. Big beast twin engine with range and payload. In absence of such plane only possible way forward is to adopt similar formation which Israeli adopted during attack on Orisis reactor in 1982.
 
Frankly, I'm competely oblivious to the f-16 blk 70 you guys are talking about. A f-16 with AESA? Is that what it is?
F16 Block 60 is equipped with APG AESA Radar..However, PAF is getting F16 Block52 which is equipped with non-aesa radar.
 

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