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Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

If you are looking at a strategic basis, we currently have no counter, as this forms part of India’s triad nuclear forces setup. In order for us to do the same, we too would have to go down the nuclear submarine route.

In terms of naval warfare it doesn’t do squat, as such a submarine would be hunted down by the latest generation diesel submarines. The joint US/Australian exercises involving the Australian Collin’s submarine showed this, where the “Waller” and later “Sheean” engaged and destroyed US nuclear submarines. A Swedish “Gotland” class also “sank” a US nuclear submarine during exercises, which triggered off a whole study into effective measures against such submarines.
 
Indonesia and Turkey to work together on anti-submarine warfare aircraft
Indonesian aviation specialist PT Dirgantara has formed a partnership with Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) to develop a prototype of an anti-submarine warfare version of the CN-235 maritime patrol aircraft, a Dirgantara official told Jane's on 16 July. "We signed a deal with TAI that allowed our engineers to stay in Turkey to prepare the prototype," said the official (Received via email from Jane's.) [first posted to Jane's Defence Weekly - Your first line of defence - 17 July 2009]

What about joining this?
 
@waz
the outcome of those exercise can't undermine the importance of having a nuclear sub....can it?
if your point is that a nuke sub can be hunted..it's intelligent and understandable.
but if you intend to put a diesel-electric sub ahead of a nuke sub...then we can talk about it.
 
Pakistan will not join maritime arms race : Admiral

By Zhang Haizhou and Hou Lei (Chinadaily.com.cn)

India’s launch of its first indigenously-made nuclear submarine is a “disturbing factor” for Indian Ocean’s security, Admiral Noman Bashir, Pakistan’s chief of naval staff, said in Beijing on Tuesday.

Bashir, who is in China to witness the commissioning of the first China-made frigate for Islamabad, also said Pakistan would not join in the maritime “arms race”.

“We knew about it (India’s nuclear marine plan) a long time ago,” Bashir said. “A nuclear submarine could be a disturbing factor” as it would “jeopardize the security” of the Indian Ocean.

The Pakistani naval head said the Indian Ocean is the most important one in the world.

India on Sunday launched ‘INS-Arihant’ (Destroyer of the enemy), the first nuclear-powered submarine built on its soil, joining just five other countries that can design and construct such vessels.

Despite of calling the move as “a matter of concern”, Bashir, however, didn’t consider the neighboring country’s military leap-forward as a major security threat for Islamabad’s own navy.

Instead, he said his navy’s key jobs would be combating terrorism, piracy, and other illegal uses of the sea as drug trafficking, and protecting the sea lines of communication in the Indian Ocean.

“We are not focused on India. India is a neighbor, so we must have good relationship (with it),” Bashir said, while suggesting both countries continue dialogues to improve ties.

Bashir made the remarks only hours late after Pakistan Foreign Office expressed concern over India’s introduction of the nuclear submarine, according to media report.

Saying the INS-Arihant could trigger off an arms race in South Asia, the Pakistan Foreign Office has said that such a step would destabilize the region and would have a detrimental effect on regional peace.

“Continued induction of new lethal weapon systems by India is detrimental to regional peace and stability,” Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit said. Basit said Pakistan would take all measures to ensure strategic balance in the region.

“Without entering into an arms race with India, Pakistan will take all appropriate steps to safeguard its security and maintain strategic balance in South Asia,” Basit said.

But Ye Hailin, a South Asia studies expert at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said India was not targeting on Pakistan by introducing the vessel.

“India does not need to use a nuclear submarine to do so,” Ye told China Daily, noting neither Pakistan would join the arms race or waste money to build its own similar vessel to respond. Ye, however, said the balance of power in the Indian Ocean would shift to India’s favor by introducing the INS-Arihant.


Despite India, only the United States, Russia, France, Britain and China had the capabilities to develop nuclear submarines until now.

China-made frigate ready to set sail for Pakistan

After visiting Beijing, Bashir is due to attend the commissioning ceremony of the first of the four F-22P frigates in Shanghai on July 30.

The vessels were ordered by the Pakistani navy from China four years ago.

The deal marks the navy’s first purchase of a major fighting unit from China. In the past, it procured such military hardware from Western countries including Britain and France.

Bashir said the commissioning of the F-22p frigates would mark “a big step forward” for the cooperation between the Chinese navy and its Pakistani counterpart.

“They will contribute for the security of the Indian Ocean,” Bashir commented on the prospective role of the China-made frigates.

He also said his country would “look beyond the F-22p”, in hoping for more cooperation with China, whose military industry is of “high quality”.
 
In terms of naval warfare it doesn’t do squat, as such a submarine would be hunted down by the latest generation diesel submarines. The joint US/Australian exercises involving the Australian Collin’s submarine showed this, where the “Waller” and later “Sheean” engaged and destroyed US nuclear submarines. A Swedish “Gotland” class also “sank” a US nuclear submarine during exercises, which triggered off a whole study into effective measures against such submarines.
Thank you for the information, waz. It solidies my point, a nuke submarine does not exactly fit into Pakistan's grand strategy.

@waz
the outcome of those exercise can't undermine the importance of having a nuclear sub....can it?
if your point is that a nuke sub can be hunted..it's intelligent and understandable.
but if you intend to put a diesel-electric sub ahead of a nuke sub...then we can talk about it.
No the outcome of those exercise doesn't undermine te nuke sub, it's importance remains. I don't think that's what he meant. Nuclear submarines have many advantages over diesel-powered, and India will no doubt enjoy all those advantages, but it is not the end all of naval warfare, and neither is it invincible from a Pakistani standpoint (as many of your countrymen believe). Pakistan Navy will lose sleep over it, for a few months, but eventually I trust them to develop counter-strategies. This kind of gives away my position on ouioui's statement, there is definitely much strategy involved in naval warfare as well. Every great weapon has a weakness, and everything can be countered, history is proof of this. Military thinking is based on measures and counter-measures, and this game never ends.

I must admit, though, India has played a real Ace here. It's going to be tough to trump this one.
 
I believe inductions of the U boats would be good enough. Pakistan shouldn't be in arms race, weaponry such as these will come over time. Pakistan KNEW that it India is going towards this path.
 
will U boats will be sufficent to defend against indian threat are we have to go for neculear sub in near future

Pakistan does NOT need nuclear submarines if they don't intend to project power at great distances, regular diesel/gas-turbine subs will be more than sufficient deterrant. What is needed is LARGE NUMBERS of subs. These can resurface and cycle. So Gwadar port is important. Pakistan needs MORE PORTS and more subs & frigates.

There's no need for nuclear sub since pakistan does not wish to intrude on other nations territory (unlike ....). :woot::guns:
 
There's no need for nuclear sub since pakistan does not wish to intrude on other nations territory (unlike India). :woot::guns:


That beggs me to wonder, China also does not wish to intrude on other nations, why are they working towards nuclear submarines and secreat bases for it? hummmmmmmm.
 
That beggs me to wonder, China also does not wish to intrude on other nations, why are they working towards nuclear submarines and secreat bases for it? hummmmmmmm.



China's nuclear sub is for safeguarding trade routes and protecting the nation -- whereas US is to wage war in poor nations and kill innocent people. See the difference.

I did not specifically refer to India, it was meant for ALL nations with power-projection (i.e. Germany, UK, France, Israel, US, China, Japan, India, etc). I knew someone would assume that I implied India when I didn't specifically. Personally I see nothing overly worrisome about India's ATV -- congrats to them. Honestly, it is not Asia that is overly worried about a rising India, but the white-controlled nations. USA is only 2/3 white but the whites control nearly 100% of the national politics and military (where non-whites are just cannon foddler).
 
China's nuclear sub is for safeguarding trade routes and protecting the nation -- whereas US is to wage war in poor nations and kill innocent people. See the difference.
Sino's right as usual; we routinely drop nuclear subs on citizens of poor hapless nations. I wonder how they fit those things on a F-16? Got to go I'm late for my KKK meeting....
 
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That beggs me to wonder, China also does not wish to intrude on other nations, why are they working towards nuclear submarines and secreat bases for it? hummmmmmmm.
The US and China have not exactly been very friendly, historically. That is a justified threat (or was until a decade ago). But, I implore you to ignore the psychos here and engage in more intelligent discussion, as you have previously displayed you are capable of doing. India's steps will most assuredly undermine peace in the region, because anytime there is great imbalance of power, peace cannot be achieved. When there is no imbalance of power, either peace is achieved through mutual efforts, or you end up in a tense stand-off substituting for peace, aka Cold War, but no war. India may claim that China is a threat, but it seems an empty argument, since China has shown little interest in engaging in military campaigns against India. Hence, you must admit, further development of nuclear arms will not make the region any more stable. It will, however, give India what they want more than regional peace, international importance and a seat on the international bully lunch table (just like the one in high school, remember?).
 
come on,guys.Pakistan is close enough to New Delhi,it's the best answer......
india's long-range missile still can't reach to any other P5 except china,that's why they desperately need the nuclear submarine
 
India has a no first use policy which means that if employed, they stand the risk of losing their nuke ability to an opponent's first strike (opponent could be us, as in Pakistan or China.) That's why they need a fallback.
We need to spend more money on educating our people in a way that opens their eyes to the world and integrates us with the world economy. The nuke subs can come later.
 
PAFAce
India's steps will most assuredly undermine peace in the region, because anytime there is great imbalance of power, peace cannot be achieved. When there is no imbalance of power, either peace is achieved through mutual efforts, or you end up in a tense stand-off substituting for peace, aka Cold War, but no war.

First of all your logic is real wrong, India is expanding it military might not only based on neighbors, but ALSO based on economic growth, try to understand that first. Secondly Pakistan is also expanding it's nuclear capabilities, if you did not know, does that constitute the furthering the cold war senario that you have given, ofcorse not. To you that constitutes expansions on newer capabilities and trashing the old. Simply India submarines have to be upgraded and the total nuclear submarines planned to be build are 8 if I am not wrong.


India may claim that China is a threat, but it seems an empty argument, since China has shown little interest in engaging in military campaigns against India. Hence, you must admit, further development of nuclear arms will not make the region any more stable.

India does not care if China is a threat or not, what matters to India most is to be par at any occassions. India has already specified that it will remain as "No first strike". Currently, India feels that it is lagging technologically in defense related fields and needs a badly upgrade in all sectors. It has the money and the abilities to do it, why not. It is up to Pakistan to catch-up, if it feels threaten, not India's problem!!!

It will, however, give India what they want more than regional peace, international importance and a seat on the international bully lunch table (just like the one in high school, remember?).

No, In India's perspective it will bring more regional peace. The burden of regional peace lies with Pakistan, not India. Pakistan has to step up to the plate and fix it's own mess and start growing economically for the regional peace.


Ps.

I always hated bully's in high school, I used to beat them up just to show-off with the ladies!!:D Just kidding!!!
 
Pakistan does NOT need nuclear submarines if they don't intend to project power at great distances, regular diesel/gas-turbine subs will be more than sufficient deterrant. What is needed is LARGE NUMBERS of subs. These can resurface and cycle. So Gwadar port is important. Pakistan needs MORE PORTS and more subs & frigates.

There's no need for nuclear sub since pakistan does not wish to intrude on other nations territory (unlike ....). :woot::guns:

I expect you to know that a nuclear sub's endurance is not just about going further away from the mainland...but also in being submerged for longer periods...unlike a diesel-electric which has to charge it's batteries...and surfaces often.

this apart...there is not much difference...otherwise.
 
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