Quarter of Pak Military Budget comes from US aid

[Vinod2070]

I totally agree with you. But I think that even if we become friends, neither country will reduce any part of their Armed Forces. I personally think that it is just too late, I mean we could be friends and I do believe we ought to live in peace but I dont believe the Armed Forces of neither country will be reduced. The reason is that Pakistan and its people know that India is not the only enemy we have, we know that their are a lot of enemies of Pakistan, some of whom just pretend to be our friends. We take great pride in our Armed Forces, we have given a lot of sacrifices for these Forces. India might have similar reasons, but India's Armed Forces are an internal matter of India and Not of a Pakistani or any other person to discuss.

Yes, India and Pakistan need to decide what works for them and what is their respective defence needs. I just feel that if we are not so obsessed with each other, the defence spending pattern would be much different and much more effective against other possible adversaries that we may have.

I agree that at least for India, the Pakistan factor would not effect the defence spending which is anyway not high at 2.3% of GDP by global or regional standards. But it would change what systems India invests in. For Pakistan, your country would know best what the optimal size and pattern of your military would be, if you did not feel threatened by Indian intentions and capabilities.

I remember reading a Pakistani writers article about how this mutual obsession is resulting in so much investment in tanks for example, which are only useful in an India-Pakistan context.

And the biggest factor is, where is so much military investment leading to? I doubt that Pakistan can sustain any aggressive posture towards India now given the huge asymmetry in size and economy. So Pakistan per force will need to maintain a defensive posture. And I personally don't see any offensive territorial or strategic interests for India towards her North-West. We would like the status-quo to persist. Could it be that we are carrying on the hostile legacy bequeathed in their infinite wisdom by our ancestors, whose time is long over.

Anyway these are my 2 cents. I am quite aware there are a large number of people on both sides who don't agree with me.

 

[Vinod2070]

Armed forces of nations expand with the requirements of Internal and External threats... As far as Pakistan is concerned the External requirements go even beyond India, as Pakistan is the only Islamic Nation to have N-Bomb and is evident to the people of Pakistan that this ability is not seen as a good thing from major countries of the West and US. Untill this world becomes a better and safe place to live in (which seems impossible thou), the requirements for better security and deterrent will only increase.

Your statement goes against the stated position of your country, which publicly states that the NWs are meant for India only and it is ready to abolish them if India does likewise.

May be you know some insider story, which we are not aware.

Anyway my intention is not to indulge in nitpicks but to point out that this mutual obsession is useless, counterproductive and a legacy of the past. Its not something we have chosen but handed down to us. I just hope we can do better than the previous generations did.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Anyway my intention is not to indulge in nitpicks but to point out that this mutual obsession is useless, counterproductive and a legacy of the past. Its not something we have chosen but handed down to us. I just hope we can do better than the previous generations did.

It will happen when the Partition generation fades.

Some of the effects are already manifesting itself!

 

[Vinod2070]

Amen to that.

 

[Spring Onion]

It will happen when the Partition generation fades.

Some of the effects are already manifesting itself!

well well well Sir

The poor Partition generation had never been too much instrumental in this regard. Rather i would say some narrow minded forces, and bullying attaitude on your part has led to this.

Being a smaller country as compare to India specially having less forces and warfare we had to maitain our defecene level against any possible misadventur by our Adversary specially in an age where the war is no more conventional as was the case in the past rather we had to defend oursleves at many fronts.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

well well well Sir

The poor Partition generation had never been too much instrumental in this regard. Rather i would say some narrow minded forces, and bullying attaitude on your part has led to this.

Being a smaller country as compare to India specially having less forces and warfare we had to maitain our defecene level against any possible misadventur by our Adversary specially in an age where the war is no more conventional as was the case in the past rather we had to defend oursleves at many fronts.

Good to see you take me on in what you term as a love hate realtionship between us.

You are too young a child to understand the Partition generation. I would not burden you with it.

What you write is paranoia!

India is not focussed on Pakistan.

It has a bigger adversary to put in its place!

 

[Vinod2070]

The poor Partition generation had never been too much instrumental in this regard. Rather i would say some narrow minded forces, and bullying attaitude on your part has led to this.

Jana if you don't mind, I would like to offer my perspective here.

The partition generation was none but our parents or grandparents and they were good human beings like everyone else. The only thing is they were victims of circumstances and were too close to certain events. It was all too human of them to have their thinking clouded by those events and circumstances. In fact if some of them could still look beyond that and think of peace and brotherhood it says something about their wisdom.

But the new generation coming up has a chance to go beyond the beaten path. Its our choice to take the easy decision and continue on the legacy of hate and enmity or take the difficult and brave decision. The choice is for our generation to make and the consequences will be felt by many coming generations.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Vinod,

Well said.

 

[Spring Onion]

Good to see you take me on in what you term as a love hate realtionship between us.

You are too young a child to understand the Partition generation. I would not burden you with it.!

Love to take punga with you know it na

well indeed u may be right for partition comment but since than during all my life i never had seen once my grand parents had ever been at work to create any obsession against India

What you write is paranoia!

India is not focussed on Pakistan.

It has a bigger adversary to put in its place!

In the same breath China is not focussed on India rather its indians' "khushfehmi" pardon me for the word and I think its Indian misconception to term China an adversary rather you must admit India can not see his bullying status diminishing in wake of China's taking lead over even US.

By your and most of the Indians' argument that India is spending immensly on weapons due to reason that it has any danger of aggression from China is lame argument for reason China had never threatened India despite its border dispute.

As far your comment that about Indian focusse on Pakistan well we never said that rather we always said India is the only nextdoor 'enemy' who from the very start has designs to harm us.

Its another matter that now the moude operendi has changed from direct attack to low-scale insurgencies.

And above all in case of any misadventure from US or any other power India would never cease a moment to strike at our eastern border simple as that.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana if you don't mind, I would like to offer my perspective here..

not at all dont worry when people log on forums they put aside their mind so how can anyone mind

The partition generation was none but our parents or grandparents and they were good human beings like everyone else. The only thing is they were victims of circumstances and were too close to certain events. It was all too human of them to have their thinking clouded by those events and circumstances. In fact if some of them could still look beyond that and think of peace and brotherhood it says something about their wisdom.
But the new generation coming up has a chance to go beyond the beaten path. Its our choice to take the easy decision and continue on the legacy of hate and enmity or take the difficult and brave decision. The choice is for our generation to make and the consequences will be felt by many coming generations.

I do understand what you said or what Sir Salim meant
Though as Sir Salim said im too young to understand that Phenomenon indeed the partition generation has all that trauma and its natural to have some negative sentiments against each others but i do beleive and what i had seen and felt by some research that its modern day generation that had added to the hate by using different Mediums and i would say we are also part of this drive all people on forums most of us are adding to the hate its another matter that some are different but most of them are adding to hate and negative sentiments.

 

[Vinod2070]

Most of us hate each other because that is all we have learnt to do! This is what we have learnt from our media and surroundings. I doubt this hate is learned first hand for most of us. Most of us have not seen or met first hand a person of the other country and when we do, we find them to be nice person most of the time just like us. The people spreading hate on internet are just too few in number.

And this hate may not be baseless, but we need to move on for our own best interests and not for charity or as a concession to the other country.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Love to take punga with you know it na

well indeed u may be right for partition comment but since than during all my life i never had seen once my grand parents had ever been at work to create any obsession against India

Jana,

You are a Pathan. You have lost nothing in the Parition. Ask the Mohajir, Punjabis and Bengalis. Those of that generation who lost everything and wjhp faced the madness of slaughter would have those horrifying scenes etched in their memory and can hardly forget! Though, once they re-established themselves and passage of time mellowed them, they grudgingly accepted whatever happened.

The next generation heard of the stories and were affect, but then not to that extent.

Your generation merely romp about the same since it is a fashionable thing to do and be with the heritage and history!

You children, Creator willing, will be more immunised from all this irrational hatred of the past.

As far as your grandparents are concerned, they are of Khan Abdul Gaffar "Badshah" Khan's generation also known in Pathan lands as Sarhaddi Gandhi and who opposed Partition and who founded Khudai Khidmatgar known as Surkh Posh).

God Bless them.

In the same breath China is not focussed on India rather its indians' "khushfehmi" pardon me for the word and I think its Indian misconception to term China an adversary rather you must admit India can not see his bullying status diminishing in wake of China's taking lead over even US.

It maybe worthwhile to see the world without pink coloured glasses!

Realpolitik is beyond illusion.

Even though you claim that China is your best chum, history shows that apart from good diplomatic statement, they have never come to the assistance of Pakistan in its fight with India.

They know their onions and what must be understood is action and not words is the true sign of friendship!

By your and most of the Indians' argument that India is spending immensly on weapons due to reason that it has any danger of aggression from China is lame argument for reason China had never threatened India despite its border dispute.

They have encroached again or so it is believed!

Excellent sign of non aggression and peaceful intent!

As far your comment that about Indian focusse on Pakistan well we never said that rather we always said India is the only nextdoor 'enemy' who from the very start has designs to harm us.

Your are entitled to believe so.

But India does not take Pakistan as a major threat!

Its another matter that now the moude operendi has changed from direct attack to low-scale insurgencies.

Not understood.

And above all in case of any misadventure from US or any other power India would never cease a moment to strike at our eastern border simple as that.

Not required.

There is enough of turmoil in Pakistan to keep Pakistan busy and beyond posing a threat!

However, any imbalance in the subcontinental polity still remains worrisome.

It is in India's interest that there is a vibrant and a self sufficient Pakistan.

 

[F.O.X]

Most of us hate each other because that is all we have learnt to do! This is what we have learnt from our media and surroundings. I doubt this hate is learned first hand for most of us. Most of us have not seen or met first hand a person of the other country and when we do, we find them to be nice person most of the time just like us. The people spreading hate on internet are just too few in number.
interests and not for charity or as a concession to the other country.

we hate each other bcoz we are not mentally prepared to accept each other or each others success. this is due to past experiances, i am not talking about the past 50 year but the past 150 years, there was a little gape which is right now to much big to be coverd in time span of 2 or 4 years.


Regards
Wilco

 

[Vinod2070]

we hate each other bcoz we are not mentally prepared to accept each other or each others success. this is due to past experiances, i am not talking about the past 50 year but the past 150 years, there was a little gape which is right now to much big to be coverd in time span of 2 or 4 years.


Regards
Wilco

Wilco I agree with you. The point is what do we want for our countries and ourselves. If we want to find reasons for our hatred, there are more than plenty that we can find and they will not be wrong.

If we want to look towards the future with optimism, again there are many reasons and examples we can look towards. There will always be many people on both sides who want this enmity to continue and many who want to get on with their lives and be friendly or at least neutral.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

we hate each other bcoz we are not mentally prepared to accept each other or each others success. this is due to past experiances, i am not talking about the past 50 year but the past 150 years, there was a little gape which is right now to much big to be coverd in time span of 2 or 4 years.


Regards
Wilco

That too maybe true.

However, 150 years ago, is too thick a conjecture.