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TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

Interesting article from an analyst closely following the topic from 2020!!!!

His observations are important, among other things he mentions about....
  • is a huge difference between producing a shape that looks like a fifth-generation fighter that will fly as a prototype and actually producing and mass manufacturing a combat aircraft that works as a fifth-generation fighter in combat.
  • its RCS (radar cross section) is much larger than the F-35 and F-22.
  • the sensor, thermal cooling and engine integration requirements are elements that Turkey is likely to struggle to meet without significant external support.
  • it still lacked its twin engines and the cockpit did not have any avionics.

That guy probably found those from his ***, TF-X is one of the most "real" stealth platform i have seen, same class as F-22 and F-35, now it comes down to material.

And that guy wants to have them integrated in FAL? What's he on?
 
TF-X is one of the most "real" stealth platform i have seen, same class as F-22 and F-35, now it comes down to material.

I think they are speculating over the back of the aircraft, but we haven't really seen the back, so its hard to say.
 
Interesting article from an analyst closely following the topic from 2020!!!!

His observations are important, among other things he mentions about....
  • is a huge difference between producing a shape that looks like a fifth-generation fighter that will fly as a prototype and actually producing and mass manufacturing a combat aircraft that works as a fifth-generation fighter in combat.
  • its RCS (radar cross section) is much larger than the F-35 and F-22.
  • the sensor, thermal cooling and engine integration requirements are elements that Turkey is likely to struggle to meet without significant external support.
  • it still lacked its twin engines and the cockpit did not have any avionics.

He's probably right on most things

TFX is most likely going to have a bigger RCS than F22 and F35 if for nothing else due to sheer size. But it will most likely beat Su57 and J20 which is more than good enough.

I expect Anka 3 to take over the role meant for F35. That thing is going to be a truly low-observable deep strike beast.



With everything that's going on, Anka-3 and the new type FAC are the only two projects that excite me. They are going to bring hell on Turkey's enemies.
 
Wider nose (= more Tn modules on nose) wider air intakes, less wing length (=higher angle of attack) and wider inter-engine clearance (= more differentiated heat management and probably a different layout of ew and radar systems)
FmAzobPX0AATERS


Another big news:

Temel Kotil: The construction of all the aircraft's systems is nearing completion and parts such as the flight control system, engine and hydraulic systems are being checked. As a result of these checks, no leaks or problems have been found.

The engine was already installed on the MMU. Now the engine's fuel tanks and hydraulics are being checked. These tanks are expected to be fueled in the coming days. After that, the engine will be started and a series of tests will be carried out about engine ignitions.

Which engine are they using?
 
He's probably right on most things

TFX is most likely going to have a bigger RCS than F22 and F35 if for nothing else due to sheer size. But it will most likely beat Su57 and J20 which is more than good enough.

I expect Anka 3 to take over the role meant for F35. That thing is going to be a truly low-observable deep strike beast.



With everything that's going on, Anka-3 and the new type FAC are the only two projects that excite me. They are going to bring hell on Turkey's enemies.
Uhh, size doesn't really affect RCS
 
F110 like the F-16C/D
Actually like F15EX

The engines to be used in TFX are F110, that's right. However, these are specially produced engines for twin-engine aircraft. They are not exactly the same as those used in F16s. (I wish it was, but it isn't. That's why I'm so nervous. :))

At worst case, we'd scrap the two F16s and equip the TFX with their engines, ignoring all legal issues. But technically not, we can't.

P.S. As our F110 engines were acquired through FMS, they are half the property of the USAF. No action can be taken without their permission. That's what I meant when I said legal issue.
 
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In the past few days, well-known analysts and press workers from the Turkish defense industry social media were invited by TAI for a briefing at the facilities. During this facility visit, the MMU and Hürjet production line was visited and a lot of off-the-record information was provided, with the condition that photography was prohibited.

One of these journalists, Tolga Özbek, gave some details on his blog about how the MMU will fly two years earlier. Here is the related news link: https://tolgaozbek.com/yazarlar/tolga-ozbek/mmu-nasil-erken-ucacakasil-erken-ucacak/

***

Some parts from report:

"Normally, the first flight date for the MMU is 2025. In the first phase, the goal is to produce a model close to the 5th generation with AESA radar and stealth design and fly it with American General Electric F110 engines.

The second stage is to produce the first block with approximately 40 F110 engines.

The third stage is to develop a new generation indigenous jet engine to be developed in TR, for which technological assistance will be obtained from abroad, and make it a real 5th generation aircraft.

When this is briefly explained, it is necessary to ask which aircraft will make its first flight at the end of 2023. My interpretation is that it is a basic prototype that will demonstrate the flyability of the concept, where basic flight data will be monitored. After all, all the results of the engineering work, which the TAI team is rightfully proud of, have been verified by computer simulations.

The Critical Design Review (CDR) will be completed and the first MMU will fly at the end of the year. The second MMU with AESA radar and all systems installed will follow in 2025. After that, the target for delivery to air force in 2028 is still valid.

The first step in the MMU is the General Electric F110 engine. These engines are in our country. There was an engine next to the airplane on the production line. On the screen on the table at the entrance of the MMU building, it was seen in the video that the number 2 engine on the right was installed. The other No. 1 engine was being installed in the engine mount of the airplane.

(In response to the question of whether it is really possible to speed up the project), increasing the number of engineers does not actually speed up the project immediately. Acceleration will be possible by taking certain steps to the fore, as TAI has done, in other words, by making the first flight with a basic model.

After all, they are working on a project that is the future of the Turkish Air Force. The steps need to be taken carefully with much thought. The Air Force Command also provides great support to the MMU teams. They are contributing to the creation of the concept through thousands of issues such as missions, capacity, maintenance and pilot training.

I saw the MMU

Block A, MMU production line. It is just behind the MMU Engineering building. In fact, the engineering teams and production lines of all facilities, from helicopters to UAVs, from parts manufacturing to satellites, are side by side. This building was completed at the end of March 2022. Production started immediately in April.

A giant airplane welcomes us inside the building. The MMU is so imposing that it is very different from the mock-up we have seen before.

Unlike the last photo, the aircraft's radome, engines and vertical stabilizer have been dismantled again. More precisely, the team on it is doing a plug and play. I made these notes in my notebook:

It's a huge radome: The radome on the side is incredibly big. It will house a giant AESA radar from ASELSAN. This radar will control all air-air, air-ground, air-sea targets. It will be the pilot's eyes.

Canopy: Ankara-based VOLO is manufacturing the canopy. Not only MMU, but also HÜRKUŞ and HÜRJET canopies are made by VOLO. This canopy is very important in terms of flight safety, both in terms of bird strikes and the canopy breaking apart during launch, and in terms of providing the pilot with optical vision.

Landing gear: The aircraft is on its own landing gear. For example, the nose landing gear is single-wheeled. Previously, this design was double-wheeled in the mock-up. When we asked, the team said, "That was a mock-up, now it is the real design." The landing gear manufactured by TAAC, a joint company of TAI and Altunay, is also beautiful in appearance. By the way, TAAC is also making the landing gear and weapons bay doors for the aircraft.

The engines have arrived: Both TAI and the Air Force are experts in F110 engines. If an agreement is reached, TEI will build 80 or more engines for the 40 aircraft to be produced in Eskişehir.

Fuel tests have started: The aircraft has three main fuel systems. The tests of two of them have been completed. The third is being worked on. Hydraulic tests were to start on the evening of Wednesday, the day of our visit. The system operates at 4500 psi pressure. Limits will be monitored.

MMU consists of four parts: The aircraft consists of four main parts. The front cockpit, center fuselage, wings and tail. The front section is made of 7050 and 77450 series aluminum, titanium in the middle. The outer skin and air intakes are composite.

TAI was painting the parts it produced for the F-35 with robotic systems. In this way, paint could be applied with equal thickness everywhere on the fuselage. This system will also be used for painting the MMU.

Which systems are foreign: The engine (in the first stage), ejection seat (British Martin Baker) and some valve systems are foreign. In other words, localization is around 85 percent.

Will the MMU fly without a pilot: When the pilot faints, for example, the aircraft will be able to land at the nearest square with situational awareness. The goal is to enable the aircraft, which has a fly by wire system, to be flown without a pilot.

Will there be a two-seater model: When we asked Mr. Temel about this, his answer was "No." He said that there is no need for a second seat in this aircraft, and that MMU can do everything itself.

High manufacturing quality

TAI teams have produced an externally clean production. When you look from the outside, the surface of the aircraft and the quality of the parts are clean and sparkling. TAI has been producing parts for world giants for years. It adds engineering to this. It gets patents. The MMU is currently the pinnacle of this work.

Production line

Block A will be the prototype production site. Two airplanes can be manufactured at the same time. In the next step, a facility where 10 airplanes will be produced at the same time will be built next to it. Just nearby, the wind tunnel test center will open in April. You may immediately ask, where were the tests conducted? For the MMU, the world's leading wind tunnel test centers were used. This will be followed by a facility for electro-magnetic testing of the aircraft.

When our visit was completed and I appeared in front of the screen for the live broadcast, I shared this with the viewers. When I looked at the comments, while I conveyed the excitement I was experiencing, the viewers also received it. Everyone was very enthusiastic.

This project started with great excitement. It continues with excitement. Without losing our experienced teams, we need to continue design and production by transferring them to new projects. Because systems in aviation are renewed every 10 years on average. Either they are modernized or the engine is changed, for example. In order to achieve this, we need to work hard and not lose our enthusiasm.

As a result, MMU is the "best answer" to the whole world while after being removed from the F-35. As I always say, MMU is our country's "War of Independence in the Air"
Thanks Dear
 
Actually like F15EX

The engines to be used in TFX are F110, that's right. However, these are specially produced engines for twin-engine aircraft. They are not exactly the same as those used in F16s. (I wish it was, but it isn't. That's why I'm so nervous. :))

At worst case, we'd scrap the two F16s and equip the TFX with their engines, ignoring all legal issues. But technically not, we can't.

P.S. As our F110 engines were acquired through FMS, they are half the property of the USAF. No action can be taken without their permission. That's what I meant when I said legal issue.

Should they buy 80 F110 engines beforehand to keep in storage? 😅
 
He's probably right on most things

TFX is most likely going to have a bigger RCS than F22 and F35 if for nothing else due to sheer size. But it will most likely beat Su57 and J20 which is more than good enough.

I expect Anka 3 to take over the role meant for F35. That thing is going to be a truly low-observable deep strike beast.



With everything that's going on, Anka-3 and the new type FAC are the only two projects that excite me. They are going to bring hell on Turkey's enemies.



LoL

TFX is a fighter developed with the latest technology ther is, you can not compare TFX with F22, only thing what F22 will have is engine with tvc. Tfx body is made from composite material, even the F35 is not totally made from composite materials. Finding the TFX with radar is almost impossible from 20km above, Tfx will get RAM.

TFX will be a 5g+ fighter even with the F16 engine on it.
 
There was no Pakistan till 1948..it was all India.
1947 and there was no India...India was a British creation

He's probably right on most things

TFX is most likely going to have a bigger RCS than F22 and F35 if for nothing else due to sheer size. But it will most likely beat Su57 and J20 which is more than good enough.

I expect Anka 3 to take over the role meant for F35. That thing is going to be a truly low-observable deep strike beast.



With everything that's going on, Anka-3 and the new type FAC are the only two projects that excite me. They are going to bring hell on Turkey's enemies.
No typical western bias in your writing is there
 
Should they buy 80 F110 engines beforehand to keep in storage? 😅
In fact, 120 F110 engines are required, not 80.

80 F110 Engines are required for 40 aircraft and also 40 F110 spare engines are required.

"We will use the F110 for the first two fleets of TFX." they say. But there are no F110 engines out there that are bought and put into storage. There is no production contract signed with GE or RR companies. How will the TFX fly without an engine?

Even more funny: There is no contract signed with TEI or Kale companies for domestic engine development!
 
In fact, 120 F110 engines are required, not 80.

80 F110 Engines are required for 40 aircraft and also 40 F110 spare engines are required.

"We will use the F110 for the first two fleets of TFX." they say. But there are no F110 engines out there that are bought and put into storage. There is no production contract signed with GE or RR companies. How will the TFX fly without an engine?

Even more funny: There is no contract signed with TEI or Kale companies for domestic engine development!
Yes you are smart and Turkey is stupid. They have no idea what they are doing and yiu sit in on every meeting.

Oh the Internet intellectuals
 
In fact, 120 F110 engines are required, not 80.

80 F110 Engines are required for 40 aircraft and also 40 F110 spare engines are required.

"We will use the F110 for the first two fleets of TFX." they say. But there are no F110 engines out there that are bought and put into storage. There is no production contract signed with GE or RR companies. How will the TFX fly without an engine?

Even more funny: There is no contract signed with TEI or Kale companies for domestic engine development!

Well idk If its intentional, but since Turkey has already been cleared to buy F110s from the f-16 days, if you slowly order engines, and stay below the money threshold where it needs congressional authorization, maybe you can get away with it. 😅

Idk, maybe the order is already placed, afterall, I didn't hear about the 404 engine for the trainer until it was announced that they had already bought the engine for prototype testing.
 
Well idk If its intentional, but since Turkey has already been cleared to buy F110s from the f-16 days, if you slowly order engines, and stay below the money threshold where it needs congressional authorization, maybe you can get away with it. 😅

Idk, maybe the order is already placed, afterall, I didn't hear about the 404 engine for the trainer until it was announced that they had already bought the engine for prototype testing.
I say it again. The GE F110 engines in the F16s and the engines that will be used in the TFX are not the same.

And no purchase agreement or production under license agreement has yet been signed for TFX. Moreover, the domestic engine development contract was not signed with TEI or Kale companies. This situation is making me nervous.

Oh BTW, the GE F404 engines were contractually supposed to have been delivered by now, but they haven't been delivered yet either.

I must be the fool, look, our officials are so relaxed!
 

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