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The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)

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Hongwu you are overconfident that china is able to defeat India. Your country only has the capability to attack India, not the ability to defeat India. And for a few border issues china is not likely to go on a full scale war with India. I am not saying china cant win but you are overestimating your ability and underestimating ours.



He is confident because.

1. China kicked india's a@@ in 1962 even thought both USSR and USA back india. Remember indian army was equibed with US arms such as M-16. But China kicked india's butt so hard that even after 50 years india never dare to attack Tibet.

2. india is weak in terms of building arms. In 1982 InAF already has Mirage-2000 at the time it was one of the best on par with F-16. PLAF however are flying J-7 which is far inferior than Mirage-200. Yet after 30 years of india's "modernization" india can not build lca on its own and need russian radar, American engine, Russian missile(R-77) and others to arm lca. The ajunk tank is also a failure otherwise india will not buy so many T-90 from russia.

3. India's airforce is not that good. SU-30MKI can be easily countered by J-10A/B, J-11B, and in the future will get owned by J-20. Mig-29 can be even handled by JF-17. China also got 124 SU-30MKK/MKK2 plus lots more J-7, J-8.

4. China has much more advanced missiles and larger air defence systems than india.

5. In 1962 China Kicked india's butt on its own. Now with Pakistan on China's side do you still think india has a chance? China attack from North, and East while Pakistan attack from the West! In 1962 india got USSR and USA support, today Russia will clearly not send anything if China and india goes to war. ALso USA will not join because USA has huge trade with CHina, not to mention China is USA's largest debt holder. What does india have when it comes to USA? India can not offer USA anything. This is why US currently "support" india so that when india and China goes to war, USA will benifit from this. China once again kick india's butt but suffer losses and USA will be happy, dancing and singing.
 
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India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.

But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan. This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.


China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.

While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.


China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!

50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!



Dude stop arguing with them. They will not listen. Also you just got un banned, these indians are trying hard to pi$$ you off again so you will be banned again.!!!!!!!!!
BTW, USA will NOT support india. USA will only provide verbal support which is useless!
 
India is the right choice because Japan / S Korea are smart enough to be afraid of a hot conflict with China. Taiwan already has a pro-China government and Philippines already told USA not to step into South China Sea dispute.

India is the one country too stupid to be afraid of China until war actually starts. It's basically used as a suicide bomber by USA.

It is very like if there is hot conflict in East Asia that India will open up a second front.
Because India is stupid? are you retarded?
The Japanese can do more damage to China than India could.
Put ur dumbass nationalism aside and use ur small brain to comperhend what u just said. With people like u in China no wondar the CCP don't have any obstacles.
China has build highways right up to the LAC. It can move SPA to support a deep thrust by infantry. Motuo county tunnel has been completed so there is highway connection all the way to "Arunachal Pradesh."
India has roads too. Closer to the border to Tibet than China does. And the Indians didn't have to spend to much effort to build these paved/dirt roads either. What does that tell u?
J-11B is China's fully indigenous flanker which is far superior to old J-11 license built Russian flanker. They are already deployed en mass to new airfields in Tibet.

China has been mass producing its own advanced turbofan since 2009. J-11B uses FWS10. See this photo

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B_WS-10a.jpg

Indigenous Chinese radar on J-11B is comparable to BARS. The old J-11 and MKK radars are crap. J-11B cockpit is a generation ahead of MKI. See this photo
THe J-11B or a or c is still a liecienced COPY it is still Russian and likily still uses Russian parts. The Su-30 MKI is also produced by HAL and the HAL produced version is 5% smaller than the Russian frames.
Also, if u want to compare them, why don't u give some actuall stats like numbers instead of, thats what the PLA fanboys said.
The Su-30MKI boasts Isreali EW suites. not russian and a BARs radar.
Totally wrong. Imported weapons are much more expensive than domestic manufactured (especially if they happen to be manufactured in China).

Of course, if India wants to delude itself to think imported weapons are a bargain.... then go ahead and spend yourself silly.
Totally wrong. Imported weapons can be cheaper, because the cost of development. The Indian made Flankers, Jagaurds still use forign parts that are cheaper to import than to develop or manufacture in India because of the costs associated with building the support.
LOL.... more self-delusion. China is magnitudes better at manufacturing than India. There is simply no comparison.

With development of FWS10 engines, China can mass produce J-11B. Of course, mass production of army equipment like SPA, MRLS, tanks and infantry vehicles is never in question
No doubt China is a large scale manufacture but u don't comperhend parts. Not everything is produced in the same factory. perhaps assembled but certianly not produced. Have u taken a look at HP's history? They pretty much buy and assemble. Its their network that works. BTW the WS-10 engines are still using Russian parts.
That was the idea. China didn't start from scratch on this made in China engine. If u doubt it, why don't u look at the J-10 and J-11 that use these engines. Did these aircraft go through major frame modifcations for new engines? No because these engines are not new! They are a mere copy of the previous engines. This was done on purpose in order to have realistic time frame and reduce the amount of modifications for aircraft, overall, reduce cost and the expense of performance or quality.
You're not fooling anyone. You can't integrate electronics from NATO and those from Russia without some major upgrades. So far I haven't seen any foreign country do this for India, nor has India done it by itself.

China on the other hand has datalinks and satellite links! Not to mention its own navigation satellite constellation "Compass" aka "Beidou".
right and the Israeli and French defence organisations are good at what exactly? Its called standardization. But to some extent u are right. This is why aircraft like the Su-30MKI use Indian mission computers etc..
China has already built around 10 major airbases in Tibet. J-11B are deployed there. Then are also some civilian airports. They will all be in operation by 2012.

Northern India has more airfields / airbases / civilian airports its true but PLAAF airbases in Tibet easily negates this advantage.

Please, not more of this "low altitude" advantage. Maybe India has problems operating at high altitude because its engines are not powerful enough. But China has no such problems. All it needs is a longer runway, easily done.
And these airbases are in Tibet? Why not build more than a dozen?
These airfields are on higher altitude, restricting the aircrafts payload, in either fuel or weapons. Then u have the weather which is only decent for 2 months of the year. Imagine trying to intercept with such restrictions. The airfields than the PLAAF would use against India are located in Chengdu.
Please no more of this China is a superpower! we can have air domiance over India bullsh1te.
Physics is physics, doesnt change the circumstances. And if Northern India has more airfields how does a half a dozen operational airbases in Tibet negate the InAFs advantage?
because China a supapower! right?
the advantage the InAF is pretty large. The Tibetan airfields have only recently started employing Flankers. But even with this the payload of the aircraft is reduced and the operational radius. With out fuel, what dogfighting can u do? and with out weapons how do u aim to achieve air superiority against pitiful india?
With J-11B backed by HQ-9 SAM and KJ-2000 AWACS, China will have air superiority. India will not be able to supply its mountain troops by helicopter.
First the HQ-9 SAM which i suspect to be a Russian S-300 liesenced production will have its range reduced. not because of the missile, but because the of the horizon. It cant target anything that it can\t see. Hence why India only purchased a few of these systems. Because range while good, doesn't mean is realistic.
secondly India does have Phalcons and heavy airdefence system.
Third but not least. have u considered that the Indian airforce can more aircraft at the border than the PLAAF?
Wrong on all counts actually. Japan's MSDF (navy) is possibly world's second most powerful surface force. Japan doesn't give any loans to China, considering that China is a bigger economy than Japan.
yes they do.
liar.
Over the years, China has received foreign aid from some developed countries, and a large amount of them were soft loans borrowed from countries such as Japan, as well as organizations like the World Bank.
China on the rise, more responsibilities expected - GlobalTimes
only recently have the Japanese stopped the soft loans to China. The phrase they used is, since China is strong like Chinese say, they don't need help. The Japanese are only now giving soft loans in large amounts to other nations like India and Pakistan.
Let's summarize:

- Before China didn't have fully indigenous J-11B flanker to overwhelm Indian Air Force. Now it does.
what does it matter when the war will be short and no one will have anytime to build anything? iTS what u have that counts not what u could build. If it was ur way. u wouldn't need a standing army of 2 million.
- Before China didn't have a dozen airbases / civilian airports in Tibet. Now it does.
And the Indian airforce now has more dominate and larger airfields.
- Before China didn't have highways (motorable by SPA, MRLS) right up to LAC. Now it does.
That might be true but the Indians have more on that end. 1987 scuffle showed that even though the Chinese had these artillery near the Indian border, the Indians had more.
In short..... China has fully prepared to fight India and take the war directly to northern Indian plains. That would deliver a death blow to the New Delhi regime.
lol. u are retarded. India was less prepared in 1962 and the PLA claimed it as victory. They couldn't do it then, they are not doing it now. If China was so powerfull why is it that the PLA moved back and India still holds south Tibet?

The issue is logistics. and the geography which u can't change. The advantage belongs to the Indians.
Which means that the large resources the PLA has will not be usefull in a limited war.
Both countries realize this. Short wars will be faught if anything in the future.
this is why the PLA have the War Zone campiagn and the Indians the Cold Start Doctrine.

And before u reply to my posts. Answer this, If China can do what u say and dominate India, why is it that India holds Chinese territory that PLA once stepped on and why arm Pakistan?

India hates China:
1. To revenge 1962.
2. Chinese support of Pakistan.
3. India is very very jelous and envy China's success. Many Indian memebers on this fourm even addmmitted it.

Really? Is that why China wants to war with Japan? to take revenge? are you retarded tooo?
Wars are fought over resources. Not bullsh1te high school popularity contests.
 
It is still going because HoWong got un banned. He is trying to "educate" indian members here. WHich I see is hopeless.

Please just stop posting on this thread.
educate ... haha ....

guys with IQ which equals that of a fly will educate Indians.. :)

really funny ...

ALL BOW TO SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE OF THESE TWO CHINESE MASTERS OF ANCIENT KNOWLEDGE OF TROLLING
 
Hey War mongering Chinese communist Nazi fanatics, Remember what happened to Nazi germany?.

So sraja, India has had way more Nazi attributes and affiliations than anybody outside of the Axis.

Starting from the Caste system as a long tradition (Nazi's would hope they could implement such a lasting system through the ages). And then one of your patriots, Subhas Chandra Bose was actually in Nazi Germany as part of the German Werhmacht. Of course the Nazi's never threw Bose's regiment into battle for fear of total annihilation (we all know how masterful Indians are on the battle field, whe it comes to retreating). Bose then turned to Impearial Japan who played him like a drum after the Nazi's advised him to get the heck out because of the Allies advance.

So your patriotic leaders had no morals to speak of and what gives you the right to call anyone names? Study up on your History first before you put your foot in your mouth again. I haven't even started on Ghandi and Nehru yet but give me a reason and I will.:sick:
 
Dude stop arguing with them. They will not listen. Also you just got un banned, these indians are trying hard to pi$$ you off again so you will be banned again.!!!!!!!!!
BTW, USA will NOT support india. USA will only provide verbal support which is useless!
Relax..... to paraphrase the Pakistanis..... "it is up to the will of the mods whether my voice is heard on PDF" :pakistan:

how these road will be after waves of cruise missiles like brahmos will make 50 meter holes after every 50 meter back to 50 no 500 years back... heavy equipment ... haha in Himalayas... PLA with small arms was able to sneak into India in 1962 when thr was no IA present in these areas ... it will annihilation for offender now.. defender will win...
LOL..... more Indian self-delusion. PLAAF is far superior to IAF. Chinese cruise missiles have at least 1500 km range, can even hit Mumbai. "Brahmos" relies on Russia for critical components (it's basically Yakhont) and India hasn't even tested any sort of air-launched version.

Once we are done destroying your armed forces, then we start attacking electricity / water infrastructure in your major cities. Then India as a single country is gone forever, back to princely states.

India has roads too. Closer to the border to Tibet than China does. And the Indians didn't have to spend to much effort to build these paved/dirt roads either. What does that tell u?
That's BS. India is decades behind China in infrastructure development around LAC. China has motorable roads for heavy equipment. India uses helicopters to supply outposts.

THe J-11B or a or c is still a liecienced COPY it is still Russian and likily still uses Russian parts. The Su-30 MKI is also produced by HAL and the HAL produced version is 5% smaller than the Russian frames.
LOL..... Indians still deluding themselves to think Chinese are at their level. J-11B is fully indigenous and uses no Russian parts. We are so far beyond India that MKI is merely a toy to us.

The Su-30MKI boasts Isreali EW suites. not russian and a BARs radar.
Total BS... this is something you just made up, admit it.

Totally wrong. Imported weapons can be cheaper, because the cost of development. The Indian made Flankers, Jagaurds still use forign parts that are cheaper to import than to develop or manufacture in India because of the costs associated with building the support.
Well of course importing is cheaper than manufacturing in India because India lacks manufacturing capability.

BTW the WS-10 engines are still using Russian parts.
HA HA more Indian made-up facts and self-delusion. Indians are so ashamed of being a low class country that they need to delude themselves to think others are at the same level!

The Tibetan airfields have only recently started employing Flankers. But even with this the payload of the aircraft is reduced and the operational radius. With out fuel, what dogfighting can u do? and with out weapons how do u aim to achieve air superiority against pitiful india?
You want to bet your country's existence on your claim that China will be unable to operate its aircraft from Tibet airbases with sufficient payload? Betting that PLAAF is ignorant about aircraft operation? :lol: Indians are in for a big surprise!

Third but not least. have u considered that the Indian airforce can more aircraft at the border than the PLAAF?
With a dozen airbases, China can deploy hundreds of J-11B or J-10. That is more modern fighters than India has in total inventory! Everything else India has is falling apart because of lack of maintenance. Look at the way Harriers and Bisons are falling out of the sky.

yes they do.
liar.
:lol: Still deluding yourself to think that China is at the same low class level as India? Prove your claim that Japan still gives soft loans to China.

only recently have the Japanese stopped the soft loans to China.
2008 is not recent. It's already 2011.

And before u reply to my posts. Answer this, If China can do what u say and dominate India, why is it that India holds Chinese territory that PLA once stepped on and why arm Pakistan?
Before both China and India were poor and low-tech, not able to fight a major war across the Himalayas. Now, China has totally outpaced India. Our revolutionary military capabilities will be tested against a weak and unstable India totally not expecting to meet its final defeat at the hands of PLA.

See...... it's not 1962 anymore!
zlckex.jpg
 
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Relax..... to paraphrase the Pakistanis..... "it is up to the will of the mods whether my voice is heard on PDF" :pakistan:


LOL..... more Indian self-delusion. PLAAF is far superior to IAF. Chinese cruise missiles have at least 1500 km range, can even hit Mumbai. "Brahmos" relies on Russia for critical components (it's basically Yakhont) and India hasn't even tested any sort of air-launched version.

Once we are done destroying your armed forces, then we start attacking electricity / water infrastructure in your major cities. Then India as a single country is gone forever, back to princely states.


That's BS. India is decades behind China in infrastructure development around LAC. China has motorable roads for heavy equipment. India uses helicopters to supply outposts.


LOL..... Indians still deluding themselves to think Chinese are at their level. J-11B is fully indigenous and uses no Russian parts. We are so far beyond India that MKI is merely a toy to us.


Total BS... this is something you just made up, admit it.


Well of course importing is cheaper than manufacturing in India because India lacks manufacturing capability.


HA HA more Indian made-up facts and self-delusion. Indians are so ashamed of being a low class country that they need to delude themselves to think others are at the same level!


You want to bet your country's existence on your claim that China will be unable to operate its aircraft from Tibet airbases with sufficient payload? Betting that PLAAF is ignorant about aircraft operation? :lol: Indians are in for a big surprise!


With a dozen airbases, China can deploy hundreds of J-11B or J-10. That is more modern fighters than India has in total inventory! Everything else India has is falling apart because of lack of maintenance. Look at the way Harriers and Bisons are falling out of the sky.


:lol: Still deluding yourself to think that China is at the same low class level as India? Prove your claim that Japan still gives soft loans to China.


2008 is not recent. It's already 2011.

next time you open a war mongering thread with your childhood fantasy,then open in chinadefence thread ! I know you want some attention n want to prove your point but give us respite with fantasy....if you think your are so good then go to OR ANY NEUTRAL SITE BUT YOU SO SCARED .
 
:china::pakistan:

India can never win a two front war with China and Pakistan. Defeating China militarily is an Indian dream like the Indian General dreamed of having tea in the Pakistani capital the next day the 1965 India-Pakistan broke out.

But we know from history that Pakistan had zero Kashmir before the 1948 war broke out and then we captured 28% of Kashmir and in 1965 we captured another 7%, though Indian text books in schools may state that Pakistan lost 2wars. We just do not care about the text books we just look at the map and enjoy the beautiful Azad Kashmir mountains and valleys that fly the Pakistan Flag.

Leave China aside, in a full scale war India will get beat by Pakistan because we have bought and manufactured a lot of ammo since 1971 until now and it may be used some day.
 
:china::pakistan:

India can never win a two front war with China and Pakistan. Defeating China militarily is an Indian dream like the Indian General dreamed of having tea in the Pakistani capital the next day the 1965 India-Pakistan broke out.

But we know from history that Pakistan had zero Kashmir before the 1948 war broke out and then we captured 28% of Kashmir and in 1965 we captured another 7%, though Indian text books in schools may state that Pakistan lost 2wars. We just do not care about the text books we just look at the map and enjoy the beautiful Azad Kashmir mountains and valleys that fly the Pakistan Flag.

Leave China aside, in a full scale war India will get beat by Pakistan because we have bought and manufactured a lot of ammo since 1971 until now and it may be used some day.

Talk about yourself ,i mean pakistan.
Else
lion6.jpg
 
@ HongWu
Enough of your mario baby. Now listen: In today's world "who's more powerful" does'nt really work but how much collateral damage one can digest. Surely China cannot afford (neither India) the magnitude of damage India can bring to it.
So STFU and talk more sense
 
And don't think your ally Pakistan will attack india!!! Let your ally defeat Taliban first. I am not doubting pakistan's strength but I am doubting it's willingness to actually go on a full scale war with India. They have too many internal problems plus their economy Is in no shape to handle the expenses of war. Many countrys will say they will attack India, but seriously they won't. Just because you guys have nukes that doesn't mean you will overpower India. Hongwu your rants are nothing but fantasies and your country seeks friendship with India more than destroy it.

Pakistan economy at present cannot withstand a week long war with India... in conjunction to the Indian Navy power in Arabian sea.. I doubt they will be able to hold even that long... It all depends on the economy how it improves in this decade ... If Pakistan looses this decade like it did Last decade ... it is bound to go for toss until some one rescues that country just like EU...
 
@ HongWu
Enough of your mario baby. Now listen: In today's world "who's more powerful" does'nt really work but how much collateral damage one can digest. Surely China cannot afford (neither India) the magnitude of damage India can bring to it.
So STFU and talk more sense
There are lots of Indians who make this claim, but it's simply not true. China can afford a war with India, even if it leads to a huge disruption in trade and commerce. Why? Because China will gain three things strategically:

(1) China decisively asserts power over Tibet. Nobody will ever challenge Chinese sovereignty over Tibet again.

(2) If India totally falls apart into princely states, China can come in as a colonialist and control resources. Just like the British, we will take all the gold and jewelry from wealthy Indians to compensate us for cost of the war.

(3) Defeating India will intimidate any country that tries to ally with USA to contain China. Aside from maybe Japan, all other countries will immediately switch to "neutral" or "pro-China" instead of "pro-USA" out of fear.
 
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