West responsible for extremism: Musharraf

[Neo]

West responsible for extremism: Musharraf

Wednesday, September 13, 2006




* President says Pakistan not inherently prone to terrorism or extremism
* Blames 1979 US mission in Afghanistan for militancy in region

BRUSSELS: President General Pervez Musharraf has blamed the West for breeding terrorism in his country by bringing in thousands of mujahideen to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and then leaving Pakistan alone a decade later to face the armed warriors.

Musharraf told the European Parliament’s foreign affairs committee on Tuesday that Pakistan was not the intolerant, extremist country often portrayed by the West, and terrorism and extremism were not inherent in Pakistani society.

“Whatever extremism or terrorism is in Pakistan is a direct fallout of the 26 years of warfare and militancy around us. It gets back to 1979 when the West, the United States and Pakistan waged a war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan,” Musharraf told EU lawmakers.

“We launched a jihad, brought in mujahideen from all over the Muslim world, the US and the West…We armed the Taliban and sent them in; we did it together. In 1989 everyone left Pakistan with 30,000 armed mujahideen who were there, and the Taliban who were there,” he said, adding that Pakistan had “paid a big price for being part of the coalition that fought the Soviet Union.”

Musharraf said that the scourge of terrorism had been eliminated from Pakistan and that efforts were underway to root out extremism, but this would take time.

Musharraf also urged Pakistani expatriates to invest in Pakistan and to send maximum foreign exchange to boost the country’s economy. The president stressed that they play a role in enhancing the dignity and prestige of the country. He said that Pakistan and Belgium had strong economic ties, which needed further expansion.

He added that Pakistanis living in Belgium should further the country’s development. Musharraf also stressed on the need for the Pakistani community to impart modern education to their children. He informed the Pakistani community about the steps taken by government to boost the country’s economy, to provide basic facilities and to counter regional instability.

Gen Musharraf met with Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt later on Tuesday to discuss trade ties between their countries, and the situation in Afghanistan and Lebanon.

Mr Verhofstadt told reporters that Gen Musharraf had urged the EU to play a bigger role in finding a solution to the Middle East crisis.

European Commission President Jose Barroso announced after talks with Musharraf that Europe would increase development assistance to Pakistan from 2007.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\13\story_13-9-2006_pg1_1

 

[Neo]

Bullseye!

I like this more assertive attitude Mush has taken since signing the deal with the pro Taliban government.
The west created the mess Afghanistan is in today, its time for them to take some responsibilty.
Leaving Afghanistan was a huge mistake, reentering even a bigger one!

 

[KashifAsrar]

So NEO what is the solution Now?

 

[EagleEyes]

What Pakistan is doing right now is the solution!

We need to hold up until Osama is captured or killed. Then we need to make sure that the network is eliminated, and there are no islamic terrorists left.

It will take years to come.

The best way to clean the Pakistani future is by getting rid of the terrorists influence in some tribal areas of the country, and by educating the children of the future.

Developments and modernization in the country has already began. It wont take long, but we will be needing much support from the United States in this process.

United States must put in funds for Pakistan in the field of education, healthcare, and developments, only this way. Pakistan can become a modernized country. If United States leave Pakistan in the desert once again and Pakistan fails. This anti-American generation of Mullahs take over the Pakistani government.

United States will probably be fighting a nuclear armed country in about 15-20 years.

United States must stick closer and aid as much as it can.

 

[KashifAsrar]

I agree on some points that education and modernization must be done in Pakistan and that too, swiftly. But when you try to put all eggs in USA basket then you are calling for troubles. Overwhelming majority in pakistan itself and on this forum also, agrre that US policies are completely anti-islamic and would not help pakistan in the longer run. Your suggestion is like asking a wolf to gaurd the sheep flock.
This is a general mentality in the muslim world that they can not think beyond USA. This is the hardest inferiority complex muslim Ummah have faced ever. Can we figure out how many times USA has come with a genuine helping hand for any muslim country, leave alone pakistan? USA has the longest history of back-stabing internationally. How much contribution does USA have in what Pakistan is now as a most developed muslim country? It is because of the hard work of the pakistani people, NOT by a favour from UNCLE SAM.

Many of those who would be reading this comment from me might jump from there seats, particularly who see west as thier only HELP. The best help that Pakistan can have is to belive in ALLAH and its capabilities.
Kashif

 

[glyn]

OK, you hate and mistrust the USA, and probably Europe too. You have no time for the UN. Fine. You can think and say what you like. You can only identify with the Islamic Ummah. Why not? But now tell me how you plan to progress in the world if you restrict all the other countries and organisations that are not muslim? I will be most interested in to hear of your solution.

 

[KashifAsrar]

How on earth You can assume that i am going to RESTRICT all the non-muslim countries?

But look this is precisely the problem with the west. West THINKS, ASSUMES and BELIEVES about others and particularly muslim world and make a false case (almost always).
And what UN you are talking about. The UN which is raped day-in-day-out by the westerners? There are more resolutions pending in UN or are vetoed by westerners, to implement justice in asia and africa, than are implemented.

And yes I identify myself with muslim ummah and many hundred millions also. So what is your problem?

By the way do you have any idea and knowldge how you progressed?
Kashif

 

[Bull]

“Whatever extremism or terrorism is in Pakistan is a direct fallout of the 26 years of warfare and militancy around us. It gets back to 1979 when the West, the United States and Pakistan waged a war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan,” Musharraf told EU lawmakers.

“We launched a jihad, brought in mujahideen from all over the Muslim world, the US and the West…We armed the Taliban and sent them in; we did it together. In 1989 everyone left Pakistan with 30,000 armed mujahideen who were there, and the Taliban who were there,” he said, adding that Pakistan had “paid a big price for being part of the coalition that fought the Soviet Union.”

Pakistan admits its mistakes but continues to repeat them.

In yr 2050 the then president of pakistan will say..."United States and Pakistan waged a war against the golabl terror" and pakistan had "paid a big price for being part of the coalition".

 

[glyn]

How on earth You can assume that i am going to RESTRICT all the non-muslim countries?

But look this is precisely the problem with the west. West THINKS, ASSUMES and BELIEVES about others and particularly muslim world and make a false case (almost always).
And what UN you are talking about. The UN which is raped day-in-day-out by the westerners? There are more resolutions pending in UN or are vetoed by westerners, to implement justice in asia and africa, than are implemented.

And yes I identify myself with muslim ummah and many hundred millions also. So what is your problem?

By the way do you have any idea and knowldge how you progressed?
Kashif

I requested your solution. You have not given it. The UN isn't doing the job it was set up to do. But being raped day-in day-out by westerners? Utter bilge. The third world with their primitive views on everything and their inherent mistrust of strangers not only cause the problems but prevent the solutions. Then moan and stick their hands out for aid. The UN costs the west plenty, and I'm not only talking money.
As to how we progressed, yes I know. It was by breaking free of the near total power of the religious establishment. Then people were not only able to think for themselves - they always had that capabilty - but they were able to speak openly without fear of the consequencies. One thing led to another and we in the west arrived at the age of enlightenment. New ideas, new discoveries, new inventions, a fairer society, the chance to own their own homes, their own land. Education flourished without the dead hand of religion and people benefitted. The economy flourished. Everyone benefitted. The third world is held back by its religious laws, tribal legacy and lack of education, but above all it is their religions.

 

[KashifAsrar]

Mere allegations! Do you have some stuff to support your views?
Europe was in dark ages until east provided the light of civilization to them. And this 'HISTORY' is not very old.
By the way can you figure out 5 acheivements of UNO in last five years?
Kashif

 

[sigatoka]

It was by breaking free of the near total power of the religious establishment. Then people were not only able to think for themselves - they always had that capabilty - but they were able to speak openly without fear of the consequencies. One thing led to another and we in the west arrived at the age of enlightenment. New ideas, new discoveries, new inventions, a fairer society, the chance to own their own homes, their own land. Education flourished without the dead hand of religion and people benefitted. The economy flourished. Everyone benefitted. The third world is held back by its religious laws, tribal legacy and lack of education, but above all it is their religions.

Of course, the millions who died in Europe within the past 90 years in terrible wars including terrific number of civilains, the gassing of millions of religious minorities didnt happen according to Glyn. By the way, across the Islamic world people can own their homes, their land and be educated.

Speaking to you is like being in a time warp, speaking to some communist. Seizing apon a single fact like religion and blaming it for all the ills of the world. You would have also made a good aid to Hitler, he sure would have appreciated your opinion on exterminating religion starting with the jews.

I would give different reasons to the poverty in India, Pak. and across a large swathe of the muslim world. The largest factor arises from trade restrictions which prevent the diffusion of superior "technology" (technical improvements). The second factor arises from level of savings and hence investment. It makes no difference whether a secular/aethist society like China embraces trade liberalisation/investment or religious nations.

This brings to the next point, does Religion increase restrictions on trade? I dont think so. In fact if a person is stupid enough to do an analysis, they would find no correlation between the two.

Your fixation on education itself is totally wrong, Kerala an India state has extremely high literacy rate (rivalling Western nations) yet it is not the wealthiest Indian state by far. Education is no different from other forms of domestic investment though it is not subject to the same degree of diminshing returns because of positive spillovers. Ignoring other forms of invesment and just focussing on education is itself a mistake.

The industrial revolution started in Britian, due to a quirk some specific factor who knows? But that Europe industrialised quickly was because of close distance and embracing British techniques of production. Nations such as Japan that did prospered, others did not.

Secondly to reach Western levels of living standard quickly requires very high investment levels. Investment is nothing more than deferring consumption, the state (as in Singpore) has taken from one generation and transferred it to another by expropriating citizens income into forced invesment.

What are you talking about the Islamic world? Economic growth is averaging 4.0% (weighted by population). This is much faster than all of the Western world barring the U.S. (which ironically is the most religious Western nation).

Take your ranting elsewhere.

 

[KashifAsrar]

Excellent post sigatoka!
You put some facts to keep the record straight.
Kashif

 

[glyn]

Of course, the millions who died in Europe within the past 90 years in terrible wars including terrific number of civilains, the gassing of millions of religious minorities didnt happen according to Glyn. By the way, across the Islamic world people can own their homes, their land and be educated.

Speaking to you is like being in a time warp, speaking to some communist. Seizing apon a single fact like religion and blaming it for all the ills of the world. You would have also made a good aid to Hitler, he sure would have appreciated your opinion on exterminating religion starting with the jews.

I would give different reasons to the poverty in India, Pak. and across a large swathe of the muslim world. The largest factor arises from trade restrictions which prevent the diffusion of superior "technology" (technical improvements). The second factor arises from level of savings and hence investment. It makes no difference whether a secular/aethist society like China embraces trade liberalisation/investment or religious nations.

This brings to the next point, does Religion increase restrictions on trade? I dont think so. In fact if a person is stupid enough to do an analysis, they would find no correlation between the two.

Your fixation on education itself is totally wrong, Kerala an India state has extremely high literacy rate (rivalling Western nations) yet it is not the wealthiest Indian state by far. Education is no different from other forms of domestic investment though it is not subject to the same degree of diminshing returns because of positive spillovers. Ignoring other forms of invesment and just focussing on education is itself a mistake.

The industrial revolution started in Britian, due to a quirk some specific factor who knows? But that Europe industrialised quickly was because of close distance and embracing British techniques of production. Nations such as Japan that did prospered, others did not.

Secondly to reach Western levels of living standard quickly requires very high investment levels. Investment is nothing more than deferring consumption, the state (as in Singpore) has taken from one generation and transferred it to another by expropriating citizens income into forced invesment.

What are you talking about the Islamic world? Economic growth is averaging 4.0% (weighted by population). This is much faster than all of the Western world barring the U.S. (which ironically is the most religious Western nation).

Take your ranting elsewhere.



Virtually every word you said has proved my point. You are in total denial about religion, as is that poster of millions of boring posts KashifAsrar. He at least is mildly entertaing as he has this compulsion to use different colours for certain lines. You just stand there and talk drivel.
Your religion has blinded you to truth. It will keep you poor and stupid.

 

[glyn]

Mere allegations! Do you have some stuff to support your views?
Europe was in dark ages until east provided the light of civilization to them. And this 'HISTORY' is not very old.
By the way can you figure out 5 acheivements of UNO in last five years?
Kashif

I asked you before, but you couldn't answer me. Name ONE discovery made by your faith.
Name ONE invention of benefit to the world that your faith is responsible for. Just one.
I feel sorry for those Pakistanis who are having to endure the continuous bombardment of your foolish propaganda. No wonder so many of your nations ablest brains flee to the West.

 

[A.Rahman]

I asked you before, but you couldn't answer me. Name ONE discovery made by your faith.
Name ONE invention of benefit to the world that your faith is responsible for. Just one.
I feel sorry for those Pakistanis who are having to endure the continuous bombardment of your foolish propaganda. No wonder so many of your nations ablest brains flee to the West.

Astronomy

Main article: Muslim astronomers

• Al-Khwarizmi, also a mathematician.
• Ulugh Beg, also a mathematician.

[edit]
http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/
Chemistry

• Ahmed H. Zewail, Nobel Prize, 1999
• Abu Musa Jabir Ibn Hayyan, (Geber)

[edit]
http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/
Geography

• Muhammad al-Idrisi, also a cartographer

[edit]
http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/
Mathematicians

Main article: List of Muslim mathematicians

• al-Samawal
• Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi
• Jamshid al-Kashi
• Abu Kamil
• Abu Sahl al-Kuhi
• Abu Bakr al-Karaji
• Al-Khwarizmi
• Abu Nasr Mansur
• Ahmad ibn Yusuf
• Al-Jawhari
• Al-Kindi
• Alhazen
• Biruni
• Omar Khayyám, Persian poet, mathematician, and astronomer.
• Nasir al-Din Tusi, 13th Century Persian mathematician and philosopher

[edit]
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Medicine

• Abul Hasan al-Tabari - physician
• Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari - physician
• Abu Al-Qasim
• Avicenna, (Ibn Sina) also a philosopher
• Saghir Akhtar pharmacist
• Rhazes (Al Razi), also a chemist

[edit]
http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/
Physics

• Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi, 9th Century Arab mathematician
• Averroes, 12th Century Andalusian mathematician, philosopher and medicine expert
• Al-Jazari, 13th Century civil engineer
• Mahmoud Hessaby, 20th Century Iranian physicist
• Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie, 20th Century Indonesian aerospace engineer and president
• Abdus Salam, Nobel Prize, 1979, Pakistani physicist

A Muslim mathematician is a person that professes Islam and engaged in the mathematicians aspect of Islamic science.
[edit]
http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/
List

• al-Samawal-12th century
• Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi-10th century wrote about decimal notation.[1]
• Ghiyath al-Kashi(1380 – 1429)-His calculation of pi is said to be more accurate than any before Ludolph van Ceulen.[2]
• Abu Kamil,(c.850-930) - wrote on algebra[3]
• Kuhi-10th century geometer.[4]
• Al-Karaji(953 - 1029)
• Abu Nasr Mansur(c. 970 - 1036) - (Formulated a Law of sines
• Ahmed ibn Yusuf(835 - 912) - worked on a book on ratio and proportion.
• Al-Jawhari-Ninth century mathematician who wrote Commentary on Euclid's Elements.
• Al-Khwarizmi-He wrote Al-Kitāb al-mukhtaṣar fī hīsāb al-ğabr wa’l-muqābala
• Al-Kindī(c. 801–873CE) - Geometry.
• Alhazen(965-1040) -Analytical geometry and other work,[5]
• Biruni-Contributions to Combinatorics, Rule of three, and geometry.[6]
• Lotfi Askar Zadeh, father of Fuzzy logic
• Omar Khayyám, poet, mathematician, and astronomer
• Ulugh Beg(1394 – October 27, 1449) - In math he worked on trigonometry and spherical geometry.[7]