Moment Of Truth :---

[Humble Analyst]

PAF is short of 100/150 fighters but its not PAF that is at fault it is the people of Pakistan who refuse to pay their share of taxes and its the past corrupt governments that not only failed to bring general public under the tax net but also looted whatever little the few tax-payers contributed.

The shortage part is not only applicable to PAF but to PA and PN too.

Well the tax part is true but the defense institutions should also look into saving and cutting costs on nonessential items. I am sure there is a lot of room to save expenditures and divert it to other useful items.

 

[araz]

Totally agree with the writer. I dont understand why Pakistan army didnt get j10c medium weight fighter jets they would have been a huge boost for the airforce along with jf17 light weight combo also i dont get the strategy of Pakistan and Imran Khan what was the point of insisting for Kashmir meditation when there was not even a reason to meditate about? I feel Pakistan really lacks a strategy tho i respect Imran Khan as a leader over others

How would you have paid for it?? You are needing loans to pay the interest on the previous loans which you have taken. China had refused to give you further loans!!!! It is easy to blame others but no one can do miracles if the whole country is in a mess.
A

Well the tax part is true but the defense institutions should also look into saving and cutting costs on nonessential items. I am sure there is a lot of room to save expenditures and divert it to other useful items.

I agree. We could look at nondevelopmental expenditures and reduce them. But the problem is the armed forces are a part of this country. When everyone is busy looting the country from the jamaidar to the PM and president, why should they stay behind. Not an excuse but a real expression of our situation. We are too quick to blame others, but are we ready t olook inside our own selves to see why is it we steal and not pay taxes. Why do we ourselves promote incompetence via sifarish and regional influence. Why are we hell bent on taking nokri in places like customs and Police.There is a hug need for national introspection before we look outwards.
A

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi,

You have found a nice way to make fun of the issue to hide it---but the fact does not change---.

A front line fighter aircraft is like a potent medicine to save the nation from invading infectious enemy bacteria---.

If it was your children or parents suffering from infection---you would find the best antibiotics to save their lives---.

The video I posted yesterday and got deleted had some very interesting information about what Air Chief Marshall Asghar Khan wrote to his counter part in india---.

But what I was shocked at was what Air Marshall Nur Khan wrote as an op ed piece in a pakistani news paper at the dawn of 65 war---.

Totally shocking---. Pakistani public needs to hear that---. Even air force personal need to hear it---.

Bu the issues stays the same---Paf is between 100-150 frontline aircraft short as of now---.

And you don't know geopolitical corruptions of our political figures in Past for PAF, you can't blame on PAF for shortage of fighter jets fully on PAF @MastanKhan

 

[denel]

That is not entirely true. PN got the skills of under water welding which they did not have before. They also got a lot of designcomputers and software plus machinery which later came in handy with the JFT project. I think the response to your query would be multiple.
A. Ability of the Pak side to absorb the technology.
B. lack of the appropriate steel manufacturing capability to be able to make use of the machines we got.
C. the french habit of stopping designs of older boats when they build newer ones. So when Scorpene came along they wanted PN to order Scorpene or marlin which was a design on paper with its own development costs. 90bs kits were either not available or available at a price which would make it prohibitive for PN.
D. Money did change hands and one PN admiral spent time as a state guest as a result of embexzzlement with this project.However both the big parties ie Sarkozi and Zardari got away.
A


Fully agreed but is it the fault of the PAF or the circumstances produced by the rampant looting of our meagre resources by ALL parties concerned.
A

Yes, and why even now the Admiral has gotten off free. It is not too late to make a show trial out of him.

 

[S.Y.A]

Most---almost all pakistanis gives Tipu Sultan example---that comes by default---.

It is just a change of mindset and direction---.

They do not even follow Tipu Sultan's example. He build a strong economy, and one of the strongest armies in India. Had his men trained by Europeans and tried to get any tech that he could lay his hands on.

But today, we do nothing but cry about lack of funds. They only remember that he died fighting, but they forget that he had build up enough power to face, and go to war, multiple times, with the sole superpower on the face of the Earth at that time.

To all the armchair warriors

Simple question...look at what you do for a living...
Then ask yourself what have you done for your country?

Then shut the F up about the force that protects you whilst you sleep.

Listening to a drunk that lives in america and getting on his band wagon doesnt make you cool. It shows those than can do do and those that cant bark. PAF is doing it and you are barking.

Pay taxes that actually run the country?

 

[airomerix]

Hi,

The indian take over of kashmir has finally let the cat out of the bag---.

And the cat says that the Paf has been caught with its pants down and may end up letting the nation and people of kashmir down---.

The Paf is woefully short of frontline fighter aircraft by a number of 100-150 aircraft---. The reason being that the Paf did not believe that there would be a war with india---.

Paf intentionally kept the numbers down over the last 3 1/2 decades for the reason that with a full inventory---pak army would have waged a war and the Paf---self serving organization that it is---does not want to fight a war---.

Every opportunity that the Paf had of getting the aircraft was short listed and an excuse found not to get the aircraft in a timely manner---. Every opportunity was availed to stretch the purchase option till the line stretched so thin that it broke---.

Never ever was there any URGENCY shown on the behalf of the Paf to get the aircraft on urgent basis---.

What a load of crap.

What sort of PDF veteran is this guy?

 

[KeyBORED Warrior]

So blame Benazir and the Khabees Zardari for it. They wanted the price to be inflated by 10 million per plane. The file kep waiting on Benazir's desk for 3 months. I guess that was also PAFs fault!!!. As I have mentioned many times before after the fall of Benazir Government Leghari sent the order through . At that stage the french withdrew their offer. Was it another case of the Sarkozi-Zardari combination screwing Paklands? you make your own decisions
A


WHY??? to make a limited war into a full fledged war!!!. That is why. Please ask the idiots who sent the forces into Kargil what their plan was??? To keep this as a localized issue and make it seem like it was an internal skirmish. How could PAF have then stepped in . At the planning PAF had clearly advised, much to the irrtation of the military planners, that the spares on F16s were running low and the timing was inadvisable as PAF would not be in a position to assist even if requested. They were smugly told, " YOU WILL NOT BE REQUIRED". We really need to read our history.
A

I think you misunderstood Sir. My 'why' was more in the defense of PAF more than anything else. Regarding Kargil, do you think the reason the current military leadership is reluctant to step into Kashmir has something to do with our aircraft numbers among offc many other things ? Lessons learnt?? Or are we playing the waiting game? 'Strategic patience'?

 

[Arsalan 345]

Idea of cold start based on air Superiority.without air Superiority,India will never give permission to ibgs to cross border.air force plays a crucial role and it can attack enemy bases and troops as well as protect your forces on ground.paf and Pak army both awakened after a deep sleep.we can't counter su-30 with jf-17.it is very difficult.also 70 to 75 f-16s aren't dangerous because they aren't upgraded.lack of missiles like harm is a big factor as well.enemy was focused on air defense systems and our armed forces rejected idea of air defense systems.
Now indian airspace is very dangerous for any fighter jet and lack of planning by army is also visible.we can launch icbm on indian city but we can't defend ourselves from indian icbm.this looks like a joke or something.poor planning by both army and airforce.they believed that India will never attack first.for the first time in history,India attacked first.it intruded deep in our territory.question is where was our response? It looks like that there is no network of Sams near certain places near border which India used as an advantage and they have proper Intel thanks to satellite engineering which we lacks but do chest thumping about sending Pakistani in space ( lol what a joke). What is more worrying is deep intrusion of Indian jets.no response means certain sensitive targets in Pakistan are at mercy of iaf.

We are a country who are overconfident and we need to use strategy and not heart.we already lost wars because of poor strategy.we must learn our lesson now.next time,iaf Target could be a nearby base.we don't even have capability to detect low flying iaf jets.i know a place in India where they installed a radar at some high peak just to detect every pakistani jet early.we must build strategies.i have seen emotions here after we supposedly lost kashmir.thing is without strategy,you can't win against a larger force.war is bad and emotions have no place in real world.
I believe before we can attack their Kashmir,they will attack ours.they have aggressive leaders who are running their country.i don't care if you call them Nazi or whatever,reality is they have their eyes set on pakistani kashmir.i urge emergency purchase of air defense systems and long range radars.

I think after block 3 jf-17, we must stop it's production and try to make a new twin engine jet.buy jets or make projects with China.we need a fighter jet who don't need air refuelling for short trips.also radars are mandatory.buy it from french or Chinese.install them on good places.india will attack us again.a false flag and another attack.i am sure they will attack.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Idea of cold start based on air Superiority.without air Superiority,India will never give permission to ibgs to cross border.air force plays a crucial role and it can attack enemy bases and troops as well as protect your forces on ground.paf and Pak army both awakened after a deep sleep.we can't counter su-30 with jf-17.it is very difficult.also 70 to 75 f-16s aren't dangerous because they aren't upgraded.lack of missiles like harm is a big factor as well.enemy was focused on air defense systems and our armed forces rejected idea of air defense systems.
Now indian airspace is very dangerous for any fighter jet and lack of planning by army is also visible.we can launch icbm on indian city but we can't defend ourselves from indian icbm.this looks like a joke or something.poor planning by both army and airforce.they believed that India will never attack first.for the first time in history,India attacked first.it intruded deep in our territory.question is where was our response? It looks like that there is no network of Sam's near certain places near border which India used as an advantage and they have proper Intel thanks to satellite engineering which we lacks but do chest thumping about sending Pakistani in space ( lol what a joke). What is more worrying is deep intrusion of Indian jets.no response means certain sensitive targets in Pakistan are at mercy of iaf.

We are a country who are overconfident and we need to use strategy and not heart.we already lost wars because of poor strategy.we must learn our lesson now.next time,iaf Target could be a nearby base.we don't even have capability to detect low flying iaf jets.i know a place in India where they installed a radar at some high peak just to detect every pakistani jet early.we must build strategies.i have seen emotions here after we supposedly lost kashmir.thing is without strategy,you can't win against a larger force.war is bad and emotions have no place in real world.
I believe before we can attack their Kashmir,they will attack ours.they have aggressive leaders who are running their country.i don't care if you call them Nazi or whatever,reality is they have their eyes set on pakistani kashmir.i urge emergency purchase of air defense systems and long range radars.

What load crap you didn't know reality kid, thanks to our corrupt politicians, they not release the funds for Pakistani Military, and Most of IAF jets also outdated in term of tech, only Indian JAG upgraded with AESA, and its about tactics to tackle the much superior enemy @Arsalan 345

 

[araz]

I think you misunderstood Sir. My 'why' was more in the defense of PAF more than anything else. Regarding Kargil, do you think the reason the current military leadership is reluctant to step into Kashmir has something to do with our aircraft numbers among offc many other things ? Lessons learnt?? Or are we playing the waiting game? 'Strategic patience'?

Thank you for the clarification. As to Kargil and the curent Kashmir empasse, these are two different issues with their own dynamics. I have alluded to it earlier but Pak lands needs indians to initiate aggression to gain legitimacy. However with increasing death toll our hand will be tied.
A

Yes, and why even now the Admiral has gotten off free. It is not too late to make a show trial out of him.

He was tried and sentenced and fined money, I think 30 million dollars, if I remember correctly. So he paid the price.
A

 

[Humble Analyst]

How would you have paid for it?? You are needing loans to pay the interest on the previous loans which you have taken. China had refused to give you further loans!!!! It is easy to blame others but no one can do miracles if the whole country is in a mess.
A


I agree. We could look at nondevelopmental expenditures and reduce them. But the problem is the armed forces are a part of this country. When everyone is busy looting the country from the jamaidar to the PM and president, why should they stay behind. Not an excuse but a real expression of our situation. We are too quick to blame others, but are we ready t olook inside our own selves to see why is it we steal and not pay taxes. Why do we ourselves promote incompetence via sifarish and regional influence. Why are we hell bent on taking nokri in places like customs and Police.There is a hug need for national introspection before we look outwards.
A

I agree and to correct have to start at the root cause plus the low hanging fruit as well. Got to start somewhere.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

The indian take over of kashmir has finally let the cat out of the bag---.

And the cat says that the Paf has been caught with its pants down and may end up letting the nation and people of kashmir down---.

The Paf is woefully short of frontline fighter aircraft by a number of 100-150 aircraft---. The reason being that the Paf did not believe that there would be a war with india---.

Paf intentionally kept the numbers down over the last 3 1/2 decades for the reason that with a full inventory---pak army would have waged a war and the Paf---self serving organization that it is---does not want to fight a war---.

Every opportunity that the Paf had of getting the aircraft was short listed and an excuse found not to get the aircraft in a timely manner---. Every opportunity was availed to stretch the purchase option till the line stretched so thin that it broke---.

Never ever was there any URGENCY shown on the behalf of the Paf to get the aircraft on urgent basis---.

As irrational as your post maybe,

I just need you to provide evidence to back up the highlighted parts.

and remember I asked for facts, not your "thoughts" nor assumption.

 

[araz]

As irrational as your post maybe,

I just need you to provide evidence to back up the highlighted parts.

and remember I asked for facts, not your "thoughts" nor assumption.

Goodluck with getting a sane and evidenced reply.
A

 

[SIPRA]

What a load of crap.

What sort of PDF veteran is this guy?

Nothing unusual. Veterans are often senile.

 

[Cent4]

Please provide evidence


Imran Khan talking about Tipu and not Ghaznavi is a display of his defeatist mentality.

He has accepted defeat before the firing of the first shot.

Talking about Tipu sultan is accepting defeat how ? Please tell.