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Burqa - A Security Challenge?

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i have read somewhere i can't recall the source will recheck, it said that Zainab and all the family of the prophet had their faces covered at karbala and yazid's army actually took off their face naqaab's exposing their faces!! which was the first time anyone saw the faces of the women of the prophet's ahley-bait!
 
Khadija wore no Niqab - Wonder HOW it came to be this business about "protective sheaths" from mens gazes came about, especially in association with younger wives of the prophet? Just wondering -


Followed by the voice of the Borg "Sir, it is the orders..."
 
Zarvan, i m still waiting for the answer to the question I asked in previous pages.
I satayed out this discussion because no one here respects quran and hadith. all have there own translations.but you are saying above words again and again. here is the answer.

Cutting nails is also prohibited during Hajj, so. dont cut your nails for whole life.
1- Men are also forbidden to wear normal clothes, do you think wearing Ihram clothes in hajj acceptable in other places? Or more pious?
2- You should not involve in marriage contracts or proposals. It was related that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “A Muhrim is not permitted to get married (male or female) or to propose to marriage.” Thus, a Muhrim, man or woman, is not permitted to marry himself or another or to propose for a woman.

3- The Bura is forbidden but covering the face with another thing is not. The reason for forbidding the Burqa is that surrounding any body part with something is forbidden during Ihram, and the Burqa surrounds the head (the Ihram of women is in their faces and hands only). If she wants to cover her face, she can use another thing that doesn't surround her head alone.

4-“Don’t wear a garment to which saffron is applied.
5- “Don’t wear Qamees, turban, Burnoose, trousers or leather socks.” He further said: “Whoever does not find slippers, he may wear leather socks, and whoever does not find a lower garment, he may wear trousers”


Ban aeroplanes because they were used by the 'terrorists' on 9/11. Ban the buses and tubes as they were used on 5/5 in London. Ban underwears that was used by the 'underwear bomber'
 
Mother Aisha said : "When we were passed by by riders, we put our robes on our faces, and when they had passed, we uncovered them"
قالت أم المؤمنين عائشة رضي الله عنها : كنا إذا مر بنا الركبان – في الحج- سدلت إحدانا الجلباب على وجهها ، فإذا جاوزونا كشفناه
 
Bhai aap to ghalti say Yahan paida ho gaye ap ko to France jaise advance mulk main hona chahye tha. its not possible in pakistan but if you want girls without hijaab then go to france.
I'm sure most EDUCATED (islamically and othewise) people want FREEDOM for our daughters to walk dressing with honor, and hijab is the opposite of honor.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

Mother Aisha said : "When we were passed by by riders, we put our robes on our faces, and when they had passed, we uncovered them"
قالت أم المؤمنين عائشة رضي الله عنها : كنا إذا مر بنا الركبان – في الحج- سدلت إحدانا الجلباب على وجهها ، فإذا جاوزونا كشفناه

ONLY the wives of nabi were supposed to stay behind a curtain
 
I'm sure most EDUCATED (islamically and othewise) people want FREEDOM for our daughters to walk dressing with honor, and hijab is the opposite of honor

Woman who wear the Hijab are not educated and dont have any honor ?


ONLY the wives of NABI PBUH were supposed to stay behind a curtain

And their lives should not be emulated by other Muslim woman ?
 
Background: Some think that Muslim women must cover their whole body, including face when in public. Women's dress code in Islam is one of the most focussed upon subjects not only in the Western media but also in Muslim countries, yet it remains one of the most distorted and misunderstood.

Firstly, according to The Quran, the most important rule of the dress code for both men and women is as follows:

O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as to adorn you. But the best garment is the garment of piety/righteousness. These are some of God's signs, so that they may be mindful. [7:26]

The garment of righteousness/piety could either refer to choosing a garment that reflects this quality or enveloping oneself in righteous/pious conduct is best, or both.

The following verses tells women to guard their private parts (i.e. genitalia) and cover their chests:

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it, and let them draw with their covers over their chests. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed. [24:30-31]

From the above verse it can be deduced that for the purposes of women's dress code two types of beauty are described:

1) What is apparent (this can be revealed in public)
2) What is hidden (this type must be covered in public, but could be revealed by a striking of feet or walk/stride which is revealing)

Such a striking of feet or walk could only reveal a limited number of parts of the body, e.g. the private parts, buttocks, thighs, breasts, hips, thus any part not revealed by such an action should not be considered part of hidden beauty and therefore part of apparent beauty. Of course, this means such things as face, hair, hands, feet etc would not clearly fall into the category of beauty that is meant to be hidden. Furthermore, the verse clearly brackets what beauty it is referring to by saying "...the child who has not yet understood the composition of women" implying it is relating to what is specific to a woman (i.e. what is different between man and woman) nothing else.
This understanding would also fit with The Quran's instruction on the body parts that are to be cleansed during daily ablution (hands, arms, face, head and feet), see 5:6, 4:43.

A headscarf (commonly called "hijab") is often worn by Muslim women, however this word is not used like this in The Quran. In fact, the word "hijab" is not even used to mean an item of clothing and simply means something which intervenes between two things, e.g. barrier, screen, seclusion. All verses where this word occurs are as follows: 7:46, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51, 17:45, 19:17, 83:15. It should also be noted that believing men and women are free to eat in each other's company, whether family or friends [24:61], thus a veil covering the face (commonly called "niqab", or the full veil "burqa") would obviously be impractical. Again, such an item of clothing is nowhere to be found in The Quran.

Another common mistake regarding dress code is when the following situation-specific verse is applied to all situations:

And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
If the hypocrites and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain*, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbours except for a short while. [33:58-60]
*proving harm is already occurring, and refers back to 33:58, which is before the modification in dress is mentioned.

The mistake is exposed when the practicalities of applying the above verses are considered. The verses deal with open enmity with significant repercussions for the perpetrators if this behaviour does not stop. The open enmity is direct to the person, hence the need for the women to modify their outer-garment in order to be recognised in public and not harmed. For the suggested solution in these verses to succeed four things must be in place:

1) The open enmity or harm must be present in the community first and direct to the women
2) The modification in outer-garment and the consequence for the perpetrator of not abiding by this identification code must either be made known to the community or this would have to be common knowledge amongst the community
3) The modification recommended would be enough to differentiate one group from another
4) The authority is in place to fight/expel those persisting in this behaviour

Clearly, this specific criteria has to be fulfilled for these verses to work, thus is not a universal rule. It is situation-specific, e.g. if a section of the community become hostile to believing women or women in general and the believers have some power in the land, then they can utilise this solution, effectively giving an ultimatum with no room for excuse for the perpetrators.

These verses are commonly interpreted to mean that Muslim women must lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garment whenever in public even in times of peace. However, this is easily refuted by considering that if this was the case and open enmity then appeared, the modification suggested in these verses would already exist, thus implementing the modification in these verses could not be done, thus rendering the solution described in these verses as void.
However, from these verses it can be deduced that wearing of an outer-garment by women when in public was the norm.

The following verse shows being clothed is the norm but makes it clear that flexibility is allowed in certain situations, as long as we are mindful of modesty. The context is etiquette within the household:

And the women who are past child bearing and who do not seek to get married have no sin upon them if they discard their garments*, provided they do not show off with their beauty. If they abstain, then it is better for them. God is Hearer, Knower. [24:60]
*Arabic word is "thiyab" and refers to ordinary clothes/gowns.

It should be noted that all examples of dress in The Quran of the righteous or believing men and women involve wearing garments, e.g. 18:31, 22:23, 24:58, 24:60, 35:33, 74:4, 76:21. Also, to provide clothing for others is considered a charitable or righteous act [4:5, 2:233, 5:89].

As can be seen, The Quran gives us a set of simple basic rules with flexible guidance for the rest, which can be applied to different situations/society/function. This flexibility is a mercy but has unfortunately been abused by various schools of thought and religious leaders who have issued their own additional rulings and consequently there is disagreement amongst them on other than the basic rules.



Additional notes for Arabic readers:
The word "khumur" is used in 24:31 and can be the plural of "khimaar" or "khimirr", and can mean any cover made of cloth or headcover, according to Classical Arabic dictionaries and Traditional Ahadith/Narrations (see Ibn Kathir tafsir). Please note the Arabic preposition "bi" meaning "with" in "bikhumurihinna", which means they are to cover their chests with their "khumur/covers/headcovers". The usage of preposition "bi" is different to the preposition "min" as used in 33:59 "min jalabeebihinna" which means to use a part of their "jilbab/outer-garment" in the modification suggested, i.e. not all of it has to be lowered or drawn near, just part of it. In 24:31 if God intended that part of it (e.g. headcover) stays on the head and part of it be used to cover the bosom, it would have been more appropriate to use "min khumurhinna". Furthermore, the word "yadribna" as used in 24:31 has no connotation of lengthening or lowering in any other occurrence, unlike "yudneena" in 33:59 which does, thus would have been more appropriate to use.
 
The quran says like apnee zeenat ko chupaao and some people debate that hair does not include zeenat, and something like that.... but hair are a beauty of woman and attract men and so must be covered...
Beauty except that which must ORDINARILY appear, hair is very ordinary, and even arms and legs during summer.
 
hair are a beauty of woman and attract men and so must be covered...

Hairy women? attractive? well, yes, it's a fetish, I suppose - but generally speaking, I don't think most find the same appeal. Perhaps instead of covering up the hairiness, maybe some sort of corrective action...just a thought - well, everyone has their own fetish, I suppose -
 
Its dress of Islam before Islam no women use to cover her head or face in Arab
Yes, they very much did cover BEFORE Islam, and surah al Ahzab asked them to STOP covering their heads and cover their breasts instead
 
Hairy women? attractive? well, yes, it's a fetish, I suppose - but generally speaking, I don't think most find the same appeal. Perhaps instead of covering up the hairiness, maybe some sort of corrective action...just a thought - well, everyone has their own fetish, I suppose -

lol, i think he means hair on their head, not hair on the legs. i doubt if in this planet earth you could find a single person having attraction to hair women.
 
These ninja type burqas are basically invention of some tharki mullah, who used to get 'tharak' by watching hands, face, feet etc of other women. He thought that 'everyone' is the tharki like him so he used to keep covering his own women like ninja. People thought since ladies of this mullah are using ninja burqa, it might be mandatory.

I have personally observed that these mullah are biggest taaroo, just observe them especially when traffic signals are red, they have covered their own women but they keep staring in other's cars.
Hey We will love to see ure women naked.....okay great bring out ure women naked and see how we gonna touch her too....and we gonna see what u can do to save her from us.......I guess we need to some enjoyment from ure women too.....and U gonna regret to talk against Purdah then.........:lol:
 
Hey We will love to see ure women naked.....okay great bringout urewomen naked and see how we gonna touch her too....and we gonna see what u can do to save her from us.......:lol:

Bass, rapist maulvi. Maulvi aukaad agai. You know what you've said, if you see a women you will rape her.

Yeh hain Maulvi, zalalat. Take a hike.
 
If that is the order of ALLAH than what will you call ALLAH MR very smart Sir First learn Arabic than read Surah Ahzab its in Surah AAhzab not even a liberal denies that orders if for covering face

Which ayat of Surah Ahzab
 
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