Generals exempted from property tax

[Awesome]

Well thats what I am saying...nothing is free. And by the way...mein nay koi lambi nahin choori..I know it sounds unbelieveable..but my ignorant friend..its been happening right under our noses...you dont want to believe...dont do it...

Thanks for your offer. I am ok perkless.

I've known many PAF individuals from this site. Many of high ranks.

I just don't see any one of them being shameless enough to ask PAF pilot to fly in a PAF plane to get mustard and cheese.

And most of all, It's Sargodha... It has malls, heck Pace hai. He couldn't go to Pace and get Mustard and Cheese that a PAF pilot had to be flown?

 

[roadrunner]

I joined Airforce in 1986 when I was just 16. And now after more than 20 years shall I start to ask for perks?

Out of curiosity, do you feel they made a mistake in letting you fly PAF jets?

 

[Awaaz]

There is something seriously wrong with your head. Why all the hate against the army? Why not against the system that we all live in. Remember one thing clear, politicans are the one that brings the army within politics. They just cant see someone running the government and they just keep pushing. Remember NS favoured general Zia and so did all the mullahs that are running their mouths loud for democracy these days. And BB she just wrights a letter to the US president to tell india to make a war like situation on the border and cut all aids to pakistan so that the military gets busy with india while i can easily come back to loot pakistan one more time and inexchange i'll make sure pakistan's nuclear programe gets halted. I'm talking back in the 90s. What do you expect within this situation. And mind you army isnt your house dog, keep a hold of yourself and your big mouth. This is because of this army the pak army that we sleep safely just look at kashmir how people are slaughtered and totured daily by IA. Army as an institution is bound to safegaurd pakistans interests and protect it against anysort of threat whether internal or external. You just believe that leaders like BB should be allowed to destroy pakistan while army just sits and watch, you really want that for some sort of internal satisfaction of yours.

I dont support bb nor any other politiians such as nawaz sharif for that matter, but it was musharrif head of the army who has brought bb back and allowed for charges to be dropped against her. This is the military bringing back a known corrupt and criminal person and wiping away the charges that are against her. Where is the rule of law in that? but it serves the militaries interests to have her participating in elections, which i believe are pointless because you are just outsing one criminal and bringing in the other. Pakistans army role is to protect pakistan interests, but killing your own population, your own citizens is that in the interests of the armny aswell or in the interest of someone else?.

I know you will say those people are extremist they want to destroy pakistan and its liberal identity and modernisation and are against developments. But do you kill everyone? i mean most of pakistani population feels that way regardless of their province and race. Thats large percentage of people how many are you going to kill, or should you negotiate and educate?.

 

[x_man]

I've known many PAF individuals from this site. Many of high ranks.

I just don't see any one of them being shameless enough to ask PAF pilot to fly in a PAF plane to get mustard and cheese.

And most of all, It's Sargodha... It has malls, heck Pace hai. He couldn't go to Pace and get Mustard and Cheese that a PAF pilot had to be flown?

Dude I have lived in Sargodha for 12 years? Two years at PAF College Sargodha then 10 years at Base. And there were million of things I would only buy from Isloo because they werent available at Sargodha. But definitely I used my car on weekends to get stuff around.

Ok let me be more specific, Mushshaks were regularly used to bring the stuff from Lahore/Isloo specially for chiefs visit. You are absolutely right, its shameless to ask a PAF pilot to get the stuff...bu the sad true is,,,it happened...

Sargodha Malls, are you talking of the Pace near Gol Chawk..its BS man. Altough there have few new ones opened near Shahbaz town, Shahzad park and Satellite town, but still for many things you wait for the trip to Isb/Lhr.

 

[x_man]

Out of curiosity, do you feel they made a mistake in letting you fly PAF jets?

Well they cant make such a long mistake (15 years almost) So I assume that they find the right person to the right job.

 

[Awaaz]

Everyone has their biases!

You cannot accuse the members of this forum of such a thing when you so obviously have your own. Being biased isn't a bad thing, everyone is to some extent- what is wrong is continuing to support a position without any rational, logical arguments to substantiate it.

I would say that part of the problem in Pakistan is precisely that false sense of "honor" and machismo we carry around and which you are displaying. "I fight my own battles". You sound like a kid playing with action figures. For society to evolve and work for the "greater good" there has to be a contract between its members to honor and respect institutions that govern it. These institutions can be flawed, but the answer isn't to go back to the law of the jungle and go around with your AK trying to get "justice". One must try and improve those institutions, and work to achieve justice through them.

You let one person go out and "fight his own battles" and every criminal and terrorist has also just been given justification to "fight their battles".

Pakistan is a jungle, if you want a job regardless of your qualifications you are not suitable unless you gift large amount of money.

If you want to lodge a compaint with the police and want something done about it you have to pay.

Riding on your motorbike or driving you just seem to mysteriously commit driving offences and guess what you have to pay and they mysteriously vanish.

Regardless who comes to power seems to know what the people want, these instituions that are suppose to deliver justice, prospereity and well being sense of security and freedom they have been there for 60 years, what changes have they brought to the quality of life of ordinary people?

We had generations come and go who like yourself say we must improve these institions but they havent managed to, that is corruption of power.

Has any politician and any other pary who seeks the well being of pakistan listened to the pakistani public and asked what they think and what are their ideas and what they want?.

Its time for change of attitudes and minds towards the army and the goverment.

 

[Awesome]

Dude I have lived in Sargodha for 12 years? Two years at PAF College Sargodha then 10 years at Base. And there were million of things I would only buy from Isloo because they werent available at Sargodha. But definitely I used my car on weekends to get stuff around.

Ok let me be more specific, Mushshaks were regularly used to bring the stuff from Lahore/Isloo specially for chiefs visit. You are absolutely right, its shameless to ask a PAF pilot to get the stuff...bu the sad true is,,,it happened...

Sargodha Malls, are you talking of the Pace near Gol Chawk..its BS man. Altough there have few new ones opened near Shahbaz town, Shahzad park and Satellite town, but still for many things you wait for the trip to Isb/Lhr.

Ok let me ask it this way...

Some dude must be flying in on a Mushak and your chief must've asked him to do him a personal off the record favor and bring along a bottle of mustard and cheese?

I can buy that. Pakistan hai, itna toh bhai charay main chalta hai. It shouldn't happen, but it's still believable.

But what you are implying is that Mushaks were specifically used for cargo purposes... Plenty of people from Sargodha over here I'll just have to confirm that if you don't mind.

 

[x_man]

Ok let me ask it this way...

Some dude must be flying in on a Mushak and your chief must've asked him to do him a personal off the record favor and bring along a bottle of mustard and cheese?

I can buy that. Pakistan hai, itna toh bhai charay main chalta hai. It shouldn't happen, but it's still believable.

But what you are implying is that Mushaks were specifically used for cargo purposes... Plenty of people from Sargodha over here I'll just have to confirm that if you don't mind.

Hi

Every base has few Mushshaks which are used for communication duties that include taking people from one base to another for official meetings/briefings, limited search&rescue , to move light cargo or official mail across bases and few other misc duties. 95% of the time Mushshaks are used specifically for official duties. But sometimes they are used for duties which are totally illogical and absurd. Chief will personally never tell the pilot to take aircraft to get the stuff across. Its either ADC, PSO or somebody from base which will order a specific thing that might not be available at a base or town.

Now as you mentioned the Sargodha has few stores of good standard, but what about Mianwali or Shorkot. There is not a decent shop/store even if you want ,for example a simple thing as a Kraft mayonnaise or cheddar cheese. Sometimes as a last resort aircrafts are sent to get even a simple things across.

You can verify it from anybody if you dont trust me. It hurts me when I see such a misuse. I just gave you one example, unfortunately there are more gross one but i would refrain it telling openly at a public forum. The thing that pinches me most that we go to any length to make a senior officer happy even if it costs loads from tax payers money.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan is a jungle, if you want a job regardless of your qualifications you are not suitable unless you gift large amount of money.

Oh please, I got one without resorting any such things.

If you want to lodge a compaint with the police and want something done about it you have to pay.

Yes and that only happens against Pathans? It happens to everyone.

Riding on your motorbike or driving you just seem to mysteriously commit driving offences and guess what you have to pay and they mysteriously vanish.

So why do you pay? Fight back! Change the system!

I've been stopped so many times by these 2 cent police officers. You need to talk with confidence. And yes Fight the damn system!

Regardless who comes to power seems to know what the people want, these instituions that are suppose to deliver justice, prospereity and well being sense of security and freedom they have been there for 60 years, what changes have they brought to the quality of life of ordinary people?

It is a 3rd world country. Things are wrong, no doubt. But we don't get up and abandon our nation. We work for it.

We had generations come and go who like yourself say we must improve these institions but they havent managed to, that is corruption of power.

We also had generations of people like you who are too sheep to do anything about it.

Has any politician and any other pary who seeks the well being of pakistan listened to the pakistani public and asked what they think and what are their ideas and what they want?.

Yes.

Its time for change of attitudes and minds towards the army and the goverment.

Yes, time to break up Pakistan eh?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I was reading AIRFORCE ONE by Kenneth T. Walsh, on page 28 he writes, ‘for years, the tradition has been to bill White House Staff members—and the President, First lady, and their families and guests-for their meal on the plane. He cost of an average breakfast is $4 to £6: lunch $6 to $8 and dinner $8 to $11.The effort to hold down costs in one reason why the meals abroad Airforce One are hardly gourmet fare; no one wants to spend a lot of money on them.’ Now have you ever seen the meal plan for our president or senior officials (military/civilians both) when they travel? I have seen it. And believe me they are not paying a penny on it. Again a PERK for their services. While in Sargodha, I have seen special aircrafts going to Lahore/Chaklala just to get the Mustard and Cheese for Chiefs breakfast as his choice wasn’t available in Sargodha. All in the name of Perks because he deserves so as he has given his whole life to serve the nation. What a crap!!

I wanted to point out one thing - The US electorate is one that takes very strongly to the notion that "it is our (the taxpayers) money" and it is something they bi*** about a lot, which keeps the US Govt. in check in terms of how many frivolous "perks" they are allowed.

Our culture on the other hand is completely based on "personality" cults and status. Whether in politics or everyday life. People who have status and power feel they deserve to be treated a certain way, and there are plenty of those who don't have status and power who feel those with it should be treated a certain way.

While I may agree with you in principle about "extravagant perks", why hold only the Military responsible when those attitudes permeate our entire society. What is needed is a vocal and educated society that can demand of its government to be better custodians of its money (of course when most of society doesn't even pay taxes, how concerned can it really be about "our money"?).

Also - the US President does receive a 50,000 expense account - and all of his meals and expenses incurred while on "official business" are covered by the US taxpayers.

 

[x_man]

Our culture on the other hand is completely based on "personality" cults and status. Whether in politics or everyday life. People who have status and power feel they deserve to be treated a certain way, and there are plenty of those who don't have status and power who feel those with it should be treated a certain way.

While I may agree with you in principle about "extravagant perks", why hold only the Military responsible when those attitudes permeate our entire society.

Cant agree with you more. Actually the thread started with Military so they were centre of attention, otherwise I must say that civilian leadership is equally worse in this regards or shall I worse.

 

[blain2]

Hi

Every base has few Mushshaks which are used for communication duties that include taking people from one base to another for official meetings/briefings, limited search&rescue , to move light cargo or official mail across bases and few other misc duties. 95% of the time Mushshaks are used specifically for official duties. But sometimes they are used for duties which are totally illogical and absurd. Chief will personally never tell the pilot to take aircraft to get the stuff across. Its either ADC, PSO or somebody from base which will order a specific thing that might not be available at a base or town.

Now as you mentioned the Sargodha has few stores of good standard, but what about Mianwali or Shorkot. There is not a decent shop/store even if you want ,for example a simple thing as a Kraft mayonnaise or cheddar cheese. Sometimes as a last resort aircrafts are sent to get even a simple things across.

You can verify it from anybody if you dont trust me. It hurts me when I see such a misuse. I just gave you one example, unfortunately there are more gross one but i would refrain it telling openly at a public forum. The thing that pinches me most that we go to any length to make a senior officer happy even if it costs loads from tax payers money.

I have seen misuse too. However it happens everywhere. Official transport in the armed forces is often misused when officers in uniform stop at the local market to pick stuff up (sometimes personal) or to manage upwards they do things above and beyond (like making sure that a visit by a senior officer goes well and no efforts are spared to make this happen). So these sort of things, while they should not be happening, do happen. Welcome to the dark side of a "professional armed force". When it becomes a profession, then people do all sorts of weird things to advance themselves. The fact that Armed Forces law (Army act etc.) is around ensure that most can't get away with a lot, but some do get away with a little and at times a lot...

It should not happen and should be condemned but certain things are hard. I have seen CO's of units send 2 Tonners to get vegetables and fresh fruit because none was available on the base. I can understand this as the CO did it for the benefit of the ORs but it may seem/sound a bit off and may even be construed as misuse of Army assets under a "humanitarian" garb

 

[dabong1]

When people like roadrunner and co start to understand that the pak army has become a corporation,mushy is the CEO with the corp commanders as the directors and senior officers as the managers .
The job of the army is to protect the country not make money.
We all know that NS and BB are corrupt to certain degree,we know this becauce there have been investigation into there bank records ect.
When was the last time we had he NAB investigated the generals?

 

[blain2]

When people like roadrunner and co start to understand that the pak army has become a corporation,mushy is the CEO with the corp commanders as the directors and senior officers as the managers .
The job of the army is to protect the country not make money.
We all know that NS and BB are corrupt to certain degree,we know this becauce there have been investigation into there bank records ect.
When was the last time we had he NAB investigated the generals?

Dabong, I disagree with your overt generalization in the other direction as well.

The vast majority of the Army 98% is busy in the exact same job as you suggest I.E. "the army is to protect the country not make money."

Fauji foundation and its retired leadership cannot be taken to represent the Army. The Army's budget, overhead etc., is all separate and different from any of these other business conglomerates that people talk about and link with the Army.

The Generals, when in uniform (all the Corps commanders etc.) are very tightly monitored by intelligence and the chain of command for various reasons. Someone's huge bank asset is not an easy thing to hide. There are security implications for the country if this is not checked and tracked closely.

Now if someone suggests that the Generals may have offshore accounts, then the same suggestion can be made about any general in the US Army or Indian Army. I would like to see records of any of these gentlemen (not saying its never happened, yet its not as common as the propaganda is made out to be).

The bottom line is that most of the Army is minding its business and training. There is an inherent bias against the Army for the services it provides to its people and this builds resentment. I can guarantee you one thing, you give same allocation of funding to the Army and to another civilian entity and the Army will build, maintain and service this project better than the civilian entity. The reasons for this are many, but when the Army becomes a target for all to bash, then nobody looks at the technicalities of how Army or any of the other conglomerates built by retired armed forces personnel work better.

If someone did this objectively, maybe they would learn a lesson or two on how to run things better....but such is not the way of Pakistanis.

Regards

 

[x_man]

I have seen misuse too. However it happens everywhere. Official transport in the armed forces is often misused when officers in uniform stop at the local market to pick stuff up (sometimes personal) or to manage upwards they do things above and beyond (like making sure that a visit by a senior officer goes well and no efforts are spared to make this happen). So these sort of things, while they should not be happening, do happen. Welcome to the dark side of a "professional armed force". When it becomes a profession, then people do all sorts of weird things to advance themselves. The fact that Armed Forces law (Army act etc.) is around ensure that most can't get away with a lot, but some do get away with a little and at times a lot...

It should not happen and should be condemned but certain things are hard. I have seen CO's of units send 2 Tonners to get vegetables and fresh fruit because none was available on the base. I can understand this as the CO did it for the benefit of the ORs but it may seem/sound a bit off and may even be construed as misuse of Army assets under a "humanitarian" garb

I was in Samugli,Quetta when Bugti was killed in 2006. Whole Quetta became a big mess and base was totally cut off from rest of the city. And a situation came where base ran out of the basic necessities (veggies, meat, milk etc) and nothing was coming in from city and nobody was allowed to go to city. Finally AHQ sent an aircraft that brought the supplies. Everybody benefited from it. I don’t have any problem with it because it was a critical situation and it required a measure like that. PAF also send its aircraft to Ahmadabad,India after earthquake . I don’t have any problem with that either.

But I certainly have a problem when huge sums are wasted on total unnecessary stuff that I mentioned in my last few posts. People try to build their careers on public expanse by going out all the way to make them happy. Seniors too set wrong precedents and use their position to abuse service property. And the dilemma is that it rising and rising. Every new guy goes a step further than his predecessor and there seems to be no end to it. Acts that were considered intolerable and punishable in past have now become legit because we have renamed them as PERKS.