HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[MumbaiIndians]

The Israeli radar now being fitted on the Tejas has an antenna designed by the LRDE – the slotted waveguide array antenna. The LRDE is also undertaking the design and development of the active electronically scanned array (AESA) technology. The AESA technology allows ships and aircraft to broadcast powerful radar signals while they themselves remain under stealth. The AESA’s basic building block is the TR module, a self-contained, miniaturised transmitter and receiver that makes up one of the AESA antenna elements. In a bid to develop the AESA, the LRDE has developed L and S band TR modules.

According to B.V. Ramesh, project director of LRDE’s LSTAR programme, an LRDE-developed X-band AESA radar could be fitted on the Tejas by 2014. Two modules of the AESA radar have already been launched. Ramesh also disclosed that the LSTAR (Long-range Solid State Active Phase Array Radar), which is a sort of a forerunner to India’s Airborne Early Warning and Control System programme, has been approved by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, integrated and tested on ground-based systems, and qualified for airborne applications. And a production agency, Astra Microwave, has been identified for it.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

DRDO Techfocus -

Under the newly formed cluster of Micro-Electronics and Devices, the achievements include Gallium Nitride high-electron mobility transistor.

 

[kingdurgaking]

From what we know so far it won't, only aiframe changes are meant to integrate the new engine and additional fuel tanks. I have no doubts about LCA MK2 getting a good fighter, or that it still has good potential, that's why I would love to see our industry and forces to focus more on it and further upgrades (K/S engines with TVC, AESA, passive detection sensors, or a weapon pod), instead of wasting the money for AMCA now.

No dear... they are optimizing the design for the drag issues and are concentrating on reducing the weight too.. Secondly AMCA is a seperate track.. Most of the avionics in AMCA will come in MK-2 also... As i said if we dont start now.. we will never start it...

 

[Broccoli]

Does anyone have pictures of the wing? I have read that the whole wing has been manufactured in a single piece (like a X-32 wing) and I would like to see pictures of it if possible.

 

[angeldemon_007]

According to B.V. Ramesh, project director of LRDE’s LSTAR programme, an LRDE-developed X-band AESA radar could be fitted on the Tejas by 2014. Two modules of the AESA radar have already been launched.

2014 is a bit ambitious. They don't even have decided whether they will go on solo or will chose a partner. If they will chose a partner it will take a couple of years to shortlist a partner and then negotiate the terms (Please correct me if i am wrong).

Ramesh also disclosed that the LSTAR (Long-range Solid State Active Phase Array Radar), which is a sort of a forerunner to India’s Airborne Early Warning and Control System programme, has been approved by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, integrated and tested on ground-based systems, and qualified for airborne applications. And a production agency, Astra Microwave, has been identified for it.

Which one is this radar ?/ I don't think this is the one on drdo awacs....

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Does anyone have pictures of the wing? I have read that the whole wing has been manufactured in a single piece (like a X-32 wing) and I would like to see pictures of it if possible.

Not the wing...but the tail.

 

[sancho]

wasting money on AMCA ? if we start now then only we can make it by 2025 -30.

To give you a short answer, check the following post please (#5047):

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4346-lca-news-discussions-337.html#post1759064

No dear... they are optimizing the design for the drag issues and are concentrating on reducing the weight too.. Secondly AMCA is a seperate track.. Most of the avionics in AMCA will come in MK-2 also... As i said if we dont start now.. we will never start it...

Can you tell me where you got that info from? Allt reports from and around Aero India that I saw said, no other aiframe changes than at the fuselage (for the new engine mainly) and even the air intakes will remain basically the same, without any new shapings.
Reducing the weight is essential, because it already has more weight than planed and changes like additional fuel tanks, bigger engine, most likely AESA radar will add more weight as well, but that has not much to do with the possible drag issue of the airframe.
I guess you meant most of the avionics of MK2 will be diverted to AMCA as well and as I already told you, we don't need AMCA, because we already have enough other developments where we gain the same advantages. Anything above an AMCA demonstrator is a complete waste of resources, at least with 5th gen techs.

2014 is a bit ambitious. They don't even have decided whether they will go on solo or will chose a partner. If they will chose a partner it will take a couple of years to shortlist a partner and then negotiate the terms (Please correct me if i am wrong).

The are already in negotiations on a partnership with foreign companies, based on the Zhuk AE, Elta 2052, Vixen 1000, RBE 2 AESA and even a possible partnership with EADS on this side as well. They started this because IAF wasn't happy with the results of indigenous AESA radar developments, but since then nothing official came out about it.
I think we wanted Elta as a partner, but since that radar has obviously key US parts, which is the reason why they could deny it to Gripen and now to LCA as well, we might see a European partner, which would be even logical by the fact that they offer much AESA ToT and source codes in the MMRCA competition anyway. Linking LCA MK2 and MMRCA would ease co-developments and reduce costs with more commonality for IAF, possibly even for IN.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

But what expertise can we get that we wouldn't get through LCA MK2, MMRCA, FGFA, AURA UCAV?

- stealth aiframe design and materials => FGFA, AURA UCAV
- Engine developments => LCA MK2, Kaveri - Snecma co-development, MMRCA, FGFA
- AESA radar => LCA MK2, MMRCA, FGFA,
- NG avionics => MMRCA, FGFA
- Remote control of aircrafts => DRDO Rustom, unmanned helicopter (with IAI), AURA UCAV


As you can see, most fields are already covered and most of them through co-developments, JV, or ToT for licence productions, so why should we develop AMCA to get the same again? Also if gathering experience and knowledge is the aim, isn't a tech demonstrator like Gripen NG, Su 47, or Mig 1.44 enough?

I don't agree. AMCA is what f35 is for America.lt can complement FGFA in medium weight category. and I dont think co developing FGFA will expose us to all the areas of building a fighter jet from scrap remember we have only 25% work share in FGFA and we were late to join the programme also.
even if LCA has aesa we can always look for improvements and innovations in AMCA.

 

[sancho]

I don't agree. AMCA is what f35 is for America.lt can complement FGFA in medium weight category. and I dont think co developing FGFA will expose us to all the areas of building a fighter jet from scrap remember we have only 25% work share in FGFA and we were late to join the programme also.

F22 - Heavy class, twin engine, multi role fighter with a focus on A2A, with high maneuverability, TVC and SC features
F35 - Medium class, single engine, multi role fighter with focus on A2G, with more space for strike weapons

FGFA - Heavy class, twin engine, multi role fighter with a focus on A2A, with high maneuverability, TVC and SC features,
AMCA - Medium class, twin engine, multi role fighter with a focus on A2A, with high maneuverability, TVC and SC features

As you can see, the only difference is the weight class, while IAF by history has a focus on fighters with good aerodynamic performance. The initial aim of AMCA was indeed to have a stealth fighter for the strike role, similar to F35, but that is not the case today anymore. They first changed it to fully multi role than just strikes and the last reports even said it should be even more advanced than FGFA.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Anything above an AMCA demonstrator is a complete waste of resources, at least with 5th gen techs.

I agree with you but i still think a technology demonstrator won't fit the requirement. IAF and IN wants to induct around 200-250 of these and that means there is a requirement...

The are already in negotiations on a partnership with foreign companies, based on the Zhuk AE, Elta 2052, Vixen 1000, RBE 2 AESA and even a possible partnership with EADS on this side as well. They started this because IAF wasn't happy with the results of indigenous AESA radar developments, but since then nothing official came out about it.

Thats what i was saying, it will take time to finalize 2 and then select the winner and god forbids if one of the company gets blacklisted after getting finalized....
Also there are reports that DRDO is thinking on going solo. In short we are back to square one and there's no way this aesa can get ready by 2014 but i hope it gets ready.

I think we wanted Elta as a partner, but since that radar has obviously key US parts, which is the reason why they could deny it to Gripen and now to LCA as well, we might see a European partner

I think Eurofighter will be good but only if we are selecting Eurofighter for our MMRCA. As far as India is concerned i think we want an aesa that will fit in all of our fighters like LCA, AMCA and might even FGFA and elta is the only company that fits that profile. E/L 2052 can be fit in all the category of fighters....

 

[Dash]

2014 is a bit ambitious. They don't even have decided whether they will go on solo or will chose a partner. If they will chose a partner it will take a couple of years to shortlist a partner and then negotiate the terms (Please correct me if i am wrong).


.

I dont think 2014 is ambitious, its pretty much doable, considering we have developed AESA radars. However if they choose to go for partners then that doesnt mean that the R&D will be stalled, it will continue as Kaveri is.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Can you tell me where you got that info from? Allt reports from and around Aero India that I saw said, no other aiframe changes than at the fuselage (for the new engine mainly) and even the air intakes will remain basically the same, without any new shapings.
Reducing the weight is essential, because it already has more weight than planed and changes like additional fuel tanks, bigger engine, most likely AESA radar will add more weight as well, but that has not much to do with the possible drag issue of the airframe.
I guess you meant most of the avionics of MK2 will be diverted to AMCA as well and as I already told you, we don't need AMCA, because we already have enough other developments where we gain the same advantages. Anything above an AMCA demonstrator is a complete waste of resources, at least with 5th gen techs.

To Start

see the image.. it says Aerodynamic changes.. and there was a interview which i read.. not sure from web or magazine from the director where he clearly mentioned it.. will update you on that when i find it..

Secondly ... when it is accepted that you dont need AMCA.. but government have a need for it.. they have already allocated seed funding for it.. and there was a report which clearly mentioned tech from AMCA may come in MK-2 and vice versa..

 

[sancho]

I agree with you but i still think a technology demonstrator won't fit the requirement. IAF and IN wants to induct around 200-250 of these and that means there is a requirement...

That's what I meant, there is no operational gain we will have with 200 x AMCAs in IAF, because they don't add any capability where FGFA, or AURA wouldn't be better, it's like N-LCA, not capable, not needed but made indigenous and I don't see why we need to spend such an ammount of money only for pride reasons. For Indias security reasons, this money could be spend more effectively, especially with more and more news of China building up force in Tibet. Heck, they should safe that money and buy more AWACS aircrafts, because we are even behind Pakistan in that area now and MoD is very slow on new Phalcon orders.

I think Eurofighter will be good but only if we are selecting Eurofighter for our MMRCA. As far as India is concerned i think we want an aesa that will fit in all of our fighters like LCA, AMCA and might even FGFA and elta is the only company that fits that profile. E/L 2052 can be fit in all the category of fighters....

By the fact that EFs AESA will only be ready by 2015, or later, I don't think it's a good choice to team up with for LCA MK2s AESA. My favourite are the Israelis, or French, the earlier because we already have a radar JV with them and MMR, the later because they are far ahead at fighter AESA radars in Europe and have good future potential as well.

see the image.. it says Aerodynamic changes.. and there was a interview which i read.. not sure from web or magazine from the director where he clearly mentioned it.. will update you on that when i find it..

But not for what aim, right? If you compare the specs for example, you will see the the MK2 is a bit longer and higher, because the airframe is a bit streched and the fuselage is lower, all this to fit the new engine, but not for reducing drag. I'm sure they will try to make some improvements, but there are no major redesigns to solve the problem.

Secondly ... when it is accepted that you dont need AMCA.. but government have a need for it.. they have already allocated seed funding for it.. and there was a report which clearly mentioned tech from AMCA may come in MK-2 and vice versa..

LCA MK2 is expected at 2014/15, AMCAs first flight is expected in 2017, so it can't contribute anything to LCA MK2. Also so far the government has only cleared the money for a demo version and studies, not for a final fighter development with the aim of serial production.

 

[kingdurgaking]

But not for what aim, right? If you compare the specs for example, you will see the the MK2 is a bit longer and higher, because the airframe is a bit streched and the fuselage is lower, all this to fit the new engine, but not for reducing drag. I'm sure they will try to make some improvements, but there are no major redesigns to solve the problem.

LCA MK2 is expected at 2014/15, AMCAs first flight is expected in 2017, so it can't contribute anything to LCA MK2. Also so far the government has only cleared the money for a demo version and studies, not for a final fighter development with the aim of serial production.

The LCA Mark 2 will have a bigger and more powerful engine, the fuselage will be changed, it will have bigger wings, and the aircraft will be more aerodynamic," says Hindustan Aeronautics chairman Ashok Baweja, whose company manufactures the fighter. "There are upgrades down the line in every global fighter programme and that is the case with the Tejas as well

AERO INDIA: India unveils plans for LCA 'Mark 2'

First of all we are not aware what is the exact drag issue and where it is... and secondly there are different ways to interpret a line.. As you pointed there will be no major redesign.. but there will be a change for aerodynamic changes... we can either assume there will be changes in the design.. or the change in specs may solve the issue.. but for sure IAF will not live with the drag issues..

secondly as you have pointed rightly on the contribute.. though not everything can contributed .. but in Avionics area it is going to contribute.. MK-2 will hold new cockpit altogether which will be as close to AMCA.. though there will be a change in software version when it comes out but the technology will be same.. to say AMCA technologies will be validated in Tejas..

 

[sancho]

The LCA Mark 2 will have a bigger and more powerful engine, the fuselage will be changed, it will have bigger wings, and the aircraft will be more aerodynamic

First of all we are not aware what is the exact drag issue and where it is... and secondly there are different ways to interpret a line..

True, because the way I understand that excerpt is, they change the fuselage, but LCA as a fighter will be more aerodynamic, but that doesn't tell us anything about redesigns, or airframe changes for it and still just hints on the more powerful engine.

MK-2 will hold new cockpit altogether which will be as close to AMCA.. though there will be a change in software version when it comes out but the technology will be same.. to say AMCA technologies will be validated in Tejas..

Buddy please don't tell me you took those reports of LCA will have 5th gen cockpit seriously. That's just one of those sensational media reports to hype things. The cockpit of Su 35 and Pak Fa will be comparable as well, just like F35 and F18 Silent Hornet cockpit has some similarities, but that doesn't make these 4th gen fighters anything close to 5th gen.
It's more like AMCA will be based on LCA MK2 techs like the LCD displays, AESA radar, possibly Kaveri - Snecma engine, but the key for a 5th gen fighter is still the different and more advanced design.
There is nothing AMCA will contribute to LCA, because they are too different and even without AMCA, we would further develop the radar, avionics, or engine techs for a future MK3 upgrade in a similar way.