Mosque is not a religious place, can be demolished any time: BJP leader Subramanian Swamy

[doppelganger]

@TankMan to understand what Hinduism is, please refer to the landmark watershed judgment on the same by the Supreme Court of India in the tumultous 90s.

The RSS, the BJP, and most Hindus I know identify with the same. I'm sure Sarthak does as well.

Coming to your point about our Muslims. Yes they can call themselves Muslims. Does not stop us from calling them Hindus now does it? It is an inclusive cultural civilizational heritage we include them as equals within. A heritage that belongs to both of us equally. A heritage we are both part of equally. Why should you or anyone for that matter have an issue with it?

I'm asking you academically of course, because as a Pakistani Muslim you should not have an issue either ways .... as its an issue which concerns us and our Muslims. Indians both. Hindus both.

 

[I.R.A]

Indian Muslims or Muslims anywhere in any part of the world cannot be considered different from Pakistani Muslims, neither academically, nor practically in terms of Islam.

Hinduism in general is understood and considered as a religion world over, I have seen a PDF user here celebrating how foreigners converted to being Hindus. People only convert to a religion, they don't term adopting of a culture as conversion. So labeling Indian Muslims as Hindus is utter non sense and a try to propagate that nut case who said that everyone by 2023 (I guess that is his deadline) will be Hindu in India.

 

[jamahir]

My personal Belief (You may not agree with me)

The only case where a mosque was demolished during life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is that of a "Masjid e Zarar", reason to demolish it, was that it was built with intention to gather support to harm and plan anarchy within Muslims.

Zionists have a long outstanding dream of "Demolishing Mosque Al Aqsa" to rebuild their "Temple of Solomon". I won't bore you with importance of happening of this event and its link with future events to unfold in light of Islamic Prophecies (you can always research it yourself or you may already know). The importance of this Swami's statement for me is that it will set a precedent to demolish Mosques without any reason by Non Muslims and that will remove "Importance and sense of belonging Muslims associate with a mosque". In nutshell it is very easy to demolish any mosque when Muslims start considering it to be normal and nothing unusual. I hope you get my point.

what you say is generally true, especially the last line, but one major complaint i have had against most indian "muslims", especially the misguided of the last 20 years, is that they outwardly demonstrated themselves as "muslim" ( in their understanding ) but did not bring to indian society one of the core teachings like prohibition of interest on loans.

the 2900 year old capitalism of india has contributed partly to india becoming known as "suicide capital of the world" and the mosques i believe have major role in bringing the negative status, by confining muslims to prayer and ritual.

 

[I.R.A]

what you say is generally true, especially the last line, but one major complaint i have had against most indian "muslims", especially the misguided of the last 20 years, is that they outwardly demonstrated themselves as "muslim" ( in their understanding ) but did not bring to indian society one of the core teachings like prohibition of interest on loans.

I agree with you on interest based banking and lending and its not limited to Indian Muslims only, I would say many Pakistani Muslims will label you non pious because you don't offer Nimaz, but would prefer saving accounts when it comes to banking. Even the ISIS is hell bent on making females adopt veils but they don't think interest as anti Islamic apparently.

the 2900 year old capitalism of india has contributed partly to india becoming known as "suicide capital of the world" and the mosques i believe have major role in bringing the negative status, by confining muslims to prayer and ritual.

We turned mosques into something which they were never supposed to be. We limited mosques to be praying places only. Otherwise early Islamic history will show that mosques played far more roles than just places of worship.

 

[doppelganger]

Indian Muslims or Muslims anywhere in any part of the world cannot be considered different from Pakistani Muslims, neither academically, nor practically in terms of Islam.

Hinduism in general is understood and considered as a religion world over, I have seen a PDF user here celebrating how foreigners converted to being Hindus. People only convert to a religion, they don't term adopting of a culture as conversion. So labeling Indian Muslims as Hindus is utter non sense and a try to propagate that nut case who said that everyone by 2023 (I guess that is his deadline) will be Hindu in India.

Imran, what you believe about the greater brotherhood of the Muslim Umah being one is a lot younger and of shorter duration than the Hindutva that binds all subcontinental Hindus and Muslims, and Sikhs and Jains and Buddhists and Christians.

They were all Hindu much much before and for a whole lot longer than Islam has existed on earth.

So no, I do not agree that calling all Indians Hindus is either nonsense or the ramblings of a nut case.

In fact, may I take the liberty of saying that beleieving those who lived together for 10,000 years suddenly could not because they now followed an alien faith was utter nonsense. I cannot say "rammblings of a nut case" for obvious reasons of course, so I will not.

 

[Levina]

But then how he got the negative rating ?

Must 've done to earn the ire of some mod, most prolly he must've posted a religious thread. Lol

 

[wolfschanzze]

you mean hinduism too, i believe.

Nope that is the native culture of this nation.

 

[HariPrasad]

Pseudo secular have strike with their radical mindset once again. Look at Saudi arebia, the birth place of Islam and role model for most of the Islamic countries. They have removed or shifted many mosques to other place because mosque is a place like community hall where all believers get to gather to chant Namaz. It is certainly not the place which can not be shifted or removed. Muslims can give their views on subject whether Swamy has said is right or wrong?

Indian Muslims or Muslims anywhere in any part of the world cannot be considered different from Pakistani Muslims, neither academically, nor practically in terms of Islam.

Hinduism in general is understood and considered as a religion world over, I have seen a PDF user here celebrating how foreigners converted to being Hindus. People only convert to a religion, they don't term adopting of a culture as conversion. So labeling Indian Muslims as Hindus is utter non sense and a try to propagate that nut case who said that everyone by 2023 (I guess that is his deadline) will be Hindu in India.

May not be. Hinduism is different from other religion. We do not have one text like Kuran or Bible and one prophet like Mohammad or Jesus. We have multiple texts like Vedas, Gita, Upanishad, Brahmin Granths, Purana etc and multiple god to whom we worship. Even our text like Ayurveda is an Upveda of some Brahmin granth. we have Vastu shastra as one of the upved of Brahmin Granth. So saying the hinduism is a gross generalization and over simplification of Hinduism which is wrong in itself.

 

[I.R.A]

Imran, what you believe about the greater brotherhood of the Muslim Umah being one is a lot younger and of shorter duration than the Hindutva that binds all subcontinental Hindus and Muslims, and Sikhs and Jains and Buddhists and Christians.

Who told you Muslims came into existence after Prophet Muhammad's era? The very first person "Prophet Adam (PBUH) who descended on this earth was Muslim, so your comparison in terms of age is irrelevant. And will remain irrelevant till you can control us from considering and calling every baby born, every child that has not reached an age where he starts practicing a religion, a "Muslim".

Muslims were there from very start and will remain there till "Judgement day" falls upon us.

They were all Hindu much much before and for a whole lot longer than Islam has existed on earth.
So no, I do not agree that calling all Indians Hindus is either nonsense or the ramblings of a nut case.

See above. Hinduism cannot come first than a first human on this earth, and that first Human was "Muslim". And I will keep calling a person who sets deadlines to wipe out Muslims a nut case. You simply cannot achieve this whatever you do. And to be on safer side that I have not hurt your feelings there is no reason to take my comment as a personal insult.

In fact, may I take the liberty of saying that beleieving those who lived together for 10,000 years suddenly could not because they now followed an alien faith was utter nonsense. I cannot say "rammblings of a nut case" for obvious reasons of course, so I will not.

This is where you misunderstand and thus miss fire. Islam is not Alien munna, it has always been there right from the beginning of human life on this earth. So your assumptions based on time spent together are irrelevant. As soon as someone converts he becomes associated to first Human the very first Muslim that descended on this earth.

 

[doppelganger]

Who told you Muslims came into existence after Prophet Muhammad's era? The very first person "Prophet Adam (PBUH) who descended on this earth was Muslim, so your comparison in terms of age is irrelevant. And will remain irrelevant till you can control us from considering and calling every baby born, every child that has not reached an age where he starts practicing a religion, a "Muslim".

Muslims were there from very start and will remain there till "Judgement day" falls upon us.



See above. Hinduism cannot come first than a first human on this earth, and that first Human was "Muslim". And I will keep calling a person who sets deadlines to wipe out Muslims a nut case. You simply cannot achieve this whatever you do. And to be on safer side that I have not hurt your feelings there is no reason to take my comment as a personal insult.



This is where you misunderstand and thus miss fire. Islam is not Alien munna, it has always been there right from the beginning of human life on this earth. So your assumptions based on time spent together are irrelevant. As soon as someone converts he becomes associated to first Human the very first Muslim that descended on this earth.

But Adam was Christian.

And Moses and Judaism came before.

So why should a practitioner of Sanatan Dharma break his head on this three way tussle?

That is for you guys (Abrahmics) to decide among yourselves first. What happened in the Middle East in the Kingdom of Heaven is of no consequence to those who are the inheritors of ancient Dharmic lands.

It remains an alien set of principles not of our land or our people. It was brought here by outsiders, and left here among those who are still Hindu. Though they may now call themselves Muslim.

Ancient faiths are linked to blood. You cannot convert and become a Hindu. You have to be born a Hindu. I am very old school in that. So even if a Hindu by DNA and blood calls himself or herself a Muslim now, that is by mind. The body and blood and soul is still Hindu. And will remain and even revert in the next life.

Because for us we have a series of births and lives. As we ascend (or descend) because of our Karma.

 

[I.R.A]

May not be. Hinduism is different from other religion. We do not have one text like Kuran or Bible and one prophet like Mohammad or Jesus. We have multiple texts like Vedas, Gita, Upanishad, Brahmin Granths, Purana etc and multiple god to whom we worship. Even our text like Ayurveda is an Upveda of some Brahmin granth. we have Vastu shastra as one of the upved of Brahmin Granth. So saying the hinduism is a gross generalization and over simplification of Hinduism which is wrong in itself.

There are more or less 124,000 (One hundred and twenty four thousand) Prophets and messenger, who came with the same message "That God is one and there is no other worthy of worship than God". And for Muslim to be Muslim, one of the beliefs is to believe in all Prophets sent by God and Muhammad (PBUH) is last of the messengers and Prophets of God. I don't know how you would restrict it to two only?

The second thing Muslims have a belief that "Holy Quran", original "Torah", "Bible", "Zaboor" and other scriptures not retained as books as for example "Ibrahim (PBUH) [Abraham]" all are word of God. And some of them got changed over the period of time by humans.

But Adam was Christian.

And Moses and Judaism came before.

So why should a practitioner of Sanatan Dharma break his head on this three way tussle?

That is for you guys (Abrahmics) to decide among yourselves first.

Okay than practitioner of "Sanatan Dharma" should refrain from calling / associating Muslims as Hindus. Simple.

 

[HariPrasad]

There are more or less 124,000 (One hundred and twenty four thousand) Prophets and messenger, who came with the same message "That God is one and there is no other worthy of worship than God". And for Muslim to be Muslim, one of the beliefs is to believe in all Prophets sent by God and Muhammad (PBUH) is last of the messengers and Prophets of God. I don't know how you would restrict it to two only?

The second thing Muslims have a belief that "Holy Quran", original "Torah", "Bible", "Zaboor" and other scriptures not retained as books as for example "Ibrahim (PBUH) [Abraham]" all are word of God. And some of them got changed over the period of time by humans.



Okay than practitioner of "Sanatan Dharma" should refrain from calling / associating Muslims as Hindus. Simple.

It would be interesting to know how many Muslims agree with you. Thanks for your elaborate response.

 

[metronome]

my god vs your god lol

ek mein bacon banned hai, dusre mein steak

 

[doppelganger]

Okay than practitioner of "Sanatan Dharma" should refrain from calling / associating Muslims as Hindus. Simple.

He does! He does not call Arabs Hindus.

He only calls those who are Hindu by blood as Hindus. All 1.5+ billion of them.

 

[I.R.A]

It would be interesting to know how many Muslims agree with you. Thanks for your elaborate response.

Who would disagree to this . Man you are confusing me let me recheck with some like @Bratva @Zarvan @al-Hasani do you people think my following post is right and you would agree with it?

There are more or less 124,000 (One hundred and twenty four thousand) Prophets and messenger, who came with the same message "That God is one and there is no other worthy of worship than God". And for Muslim to be Muslim, one of the beliefs is to believe in all Prophets sent by God and Muhammad (PBUH) is last of the messengers and Prophets of God. I don't know how you would restrict it to two only?

The second thing Muslims have a belief that "Holy Quran", original "Torah", "Bible", "Zaboor" and other scriptures not retained as books as for example "Ibrahim (PBUH) [Abraham]" all are word of God. And some of them got changed over the period of time by humans.

He does! He does not call Arabs Hindus.

He only calls those who are Hindu by blood as Hindus. All 1.5+ billion of them.

First tell me for once clearly what is Hinduism? Religion? Culture? what is it?