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PAF superiority over IAF in 65 war

Once we both tried to kill each other and now respect each other.
in 1979 I almost killed 2 IAF mig21 pilots. One of them Retd Air cdre Gill, He is now my best friend it is ironic that 40 , 50 years back we were trying to kill each other now we have barbecues together. My neighbor 5 house down the is a Retd Col Indian Army a sardar very good friend and by his actions I can say he was an excellent officer.
Funny thing were we live a lot of construction is going on so lots of snake so our american neighbors even 7 blocks away will either call me , Gill or the Kulgit to kill a snake most of the town know who we 3 are and in the night we go out walking with out walking sticks and kill snakes. During a community fair few American officer who live around us asked that are you are crazy or what and Gill say why he is like the other day you 3 were up at 4 am killing snakes arent you scared and Gill replied what we 3 have gone through snakes are like teletubies:lol::lol:

To my Indian members I of all the people can/will stand anywhere in the world and say that IAF and PAF are the best, They have produces one of the best fighter pilots in the world both countries. It is unfortunate that we are bad neighbors other wise Pakistan and India together is a force not to be taken lightly.
I have asked them 1 time and they refused the only time they talk about war when they are drunk


Thanks for trying Sir!!!

About the snake hunting story....I hope the firangs dont call on us desis cause they think all people from the sub-continent are "snake charmers".....LOL!!!
 
Murad sb.. Have you taken it upon yourself to continue the work of the "Tail-choppers" literally?? ;)
 
Only this time its snake tails you are chopping away...
 
Once we both tried to kill each other and now respect each other.
in 1979 I almost killed 2 IAF mig21 pilots. One of them Retd Air cdre Gill, He is now my best friend it is ironic that 40 , 50 years back we were trying to kill each other now we have barbecues together. My neighbor 5 house down the is a Retd Col Indian Army a sardar very good friend and by his actions I can say he was an excellent officer.
Funny thing were we live a lot of construction is going on so lots of snake so our american neighbors even 7 blocks away will either call me , Gill or the Kulgit to kill a snake most of the town know who we 3 are and in the night we go out walking with out walking sticks and kill snakes. During a community fair few American officer who live around us asked that are you are crazy or what and Gill say why he is like the other day you 3 were up at 4 am killing snakes arent you scared and Gill replied what we 3 have gone through snakes are like teletubies:lol::lol:

To my Indian members I of all the people can/will stand anywhere in the world and say that IAF and PAF are the best, They have produced one of the best fighter pilots in the world both countries. It is unfortunate that we are bad neighbors other wise Pakistan and India together is a force not to be taken lightly.
I have asked them 1 time and they refused the only time they talk about war when they are drunk

Thank you for your comments. It is easy to see that you are an officer and a gentleman of the old school.

It has always seemed to me that the men and women who actually risk their lives in combat are the least belligerent and the readiest to acknowledge the enemy as a warrior.

A lot of times, the fire eaters who would drink their enemy's blood are people who have never actually seen combat.

I have never seen combat either, nor heard a weapon fired in anger, but as an army brat I have met many IA officers who fought against Pakistan. Some of my friends fought in Kargil. They were all competitive, confident and proud- but every single man acknowledges that they face a worthy enemy.
 
Thank you for your comments. It is easy to see that you are an officer and a gentleman of the old school.

It has always seemed to me that the men and women who actually risk their lives in combat are the least belligerent and the readiest to acknowledge the enemy as a warrior.

A lot of times, the fire eaters who would drink their enemy's blood are people who have never actually seen combat.

I have never seen combat either, nor heard a weapon fired in anger, but as an army brat I have met many IA officers who fought against Pakistan. Some of my friends fought in Kargil. They were all competitive, confident and proud- but every single man acknowledges that they face a worthy enemy.

Thank you for your kind words the truth is both side fought bravely, I would be lying my As- off if I say that I was not scared but when I signed that dotted line I meant it that I will die for my country, GOD was kind and I lived through the horrors of war where my brother didn't. That doesn't make me the best pilot in PAF it just says I did my job when my country needed me. So did the IAF pilots. when you are fighting in air and trying to kill each other the story is different but when you meet the same pilot on the ground you start to respect him as a worthy adversary.
 
whats up with indian bragging so much about this irrelevant to pak-indo context of "attrition rate"... IAF had alot more planes then PAF so of course they flew more take off and landing sorties, and even if they lost as much plane as PAF entire fleet their "attrition rate" will be still much lower then PAF.
and plus we need to get all the information about how many planes IAF put into action and how many hours each planes flew before you guys jump into conclusion.


and btw.. its only india who comes up with wild claims like IAF destroyed 73 of our planes and pass on the information to anti-pak sites like globalsecurity and use that as "neutral" source to prove their point which is really sad.


Any things which dont suits your version, you tagged as anti pak.......
 
Buddy you know another indian myth?According to them PAF had better weapons in 65 :lol: :lol: and our missile seriousely demoralied them lol.While in reality there were only 3 missile kills and that Indian nutjob commander who thought flying mig21 super sonically would scare Pakistani Air Force Commandors but they could not do it though as PAF wiped out entire IAF mig21 squad in Pathankot Strike and returned without 0 losses.That's right.They went in their land blew their planes without 0 losses.Same for Sri Nagar Air Base raid in which Sir Muradk also participated and was also flying Sabre :p.

They are living in fools paradise.
 
Any things which dont suits your version, you tagged as anti pak.......

Ok Lets take main Battle of PAF vs IAF in 1965

1) The aerial phase of the war began on September 1, 1965, when the Indian Air Force's No. 45 Squadron responded to an urgent call for air strikes against the Pakistani Army, which had launched a counter attack known as Operation Grand Slam. In the process the IAF scrambled four IAF Vampire FB Mk 52s. These initial air strikes were successful in slowing the Pakistani advance, however, the PAF sent two F-86 Sabres armed with air to air missiles to the battlefield and in the ensuing dogfight, the outdated Vampires of Indian Air Force were outclassed with the more modern Pakistani F-86 Sabres. One Vampire was shot down by ground fire and another three were shot down by PAF F-86 Sabres.[7]

Well, F-86 shooting down vampire is not a very big thing, even novice can do that

In the air-to-air combat of the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, the PAF Sabres claimed to have shot down 15 IAF aircraft, comprising nine Hunters, four Vampires and two Gnats.[30] India however, admitted a loss of 14 combat aircraft to the PAF's F-86s.[33] The F-86s of the PAF had the advantage of being armed with AIM-9B/GAR-8 Sidewinder missiles whereas none of its Indian adversaries had this capability. Despite this, the IAF claimed to have shot down four PAF Sabres in air-to-air combat.[31] This claim is disputed by the PAF who admit to having lost 7 F-86s Sabres during the whole 23 days but only three of them during air-to-air battles.[30]

So , If plane which is far superior then then is adversaries which is are not even to stand in front of them.

Technical PAF is superior planes in war then Indians.

The F-86 was operated by nine PAF squadrons at various times: Nos. 5, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 26 Squadrons.

apart from that PAF operating F- 104 which again can fire air - air missiles,

At dawn on 6 September 1965, Flight Lieutenant Aftab Alam Khan in an F-104 claimed a Dassault Mystère IV destroyed over West Pakistan and another damaged, to mark the start of aerial combat in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965. It is claimed as the first combat kill by any Mach 2 aircraft, and the first missile kill for the Pakistan Air Force. Indian sources dispute this claim.[19] The PAF lost one F-104 Starfighter during the 1965 operations, scoring two kills in return. However, one of the F-104 Starfighter's victims was an Alize aircraft which belonged to the Indian Navy, which was shot down when a Starfighter was returning home from an aborted mission.[20]

The Starfighter was also instrumental in intercepting an Indian Air Force Folland Gnat earlier, on 3 September 1965. F-104s were vectored to intercept the Gnat flying over Pakistan, returning to its home base. The F-104s, closing in at supersonic speed, caused the Gnat pilot to lower the undercarriage and land at a nearby disused Pakistani airfield to surrender. The Indian AF claims Squadron Leader Brij Pal Singh (who later rose to be an Air Marshal) made a navigation error that led him to land on the Pakistani airstrip. Singh was taken as a POW and later released.[20] The IAF Gnat is now displayed at the PAF Museum, Karachi. In the 1971 war, four F-104As were lost in combat against the IAF MiG-21s. One pilot successfully ejected from his F-104 over shark infested waters, but was never found.[21]

September 7 also marked the day when the PAF attacked IAF airfields in the Eastern Sector. The raid on Kalaikunda was successful. Although one Indian pilot, Flight Lieutenant A T Cooke, engaged four Pakistani Sabres singlehandedly, shooting down one[while flying at tree-top height and making another a write off in the process, the IAF suffered badly in the raid, losing a total of 10 aircraft in two raids.


Again i Will say again , PAF have advance fire power against IAF in 1965, so with that if IAF survive shows it ability to with sand.

On September 18, one Sabre was shot down by a Gnat over Amritsar, the matter was reported by the Collector, who had witness the entire dogfight.[ The Pakistani Sabres that were also participating in the raid shot down a civilian aircraft as they were returning home. The aircraft had been carrying the then Gujarat Chief Minister Balwant Rai and his family. On September 19, one Gnat[7] and two Sabres were downed over Chawinda. One of the Sabres that were shot down was credited to Squadron Leader Denzil Keelor, the brother of Trevor Keelor, who was credited with the first Indian aerial victory of the war.[12] The following day, another two Hunters[7] and an F-86 Sabre[13] were lost over Kasur, Pakistan.

At one stage the IAF was operating 200 air missions simultaneously. IAF Folland Gnats of Nos 9 and 23 squadrons played a significant role in major air battles.

4,073+ combat sorties flown by IAF vs PAF 2,279 combat sorties


Even after this if IAF inflect hevy damages to PAF really commendable.


Their is no Pride in shooting down antique plane , pride is if you shoot down advance plane by antique.

Example if F-22 destroyed Mig 21 and won their is no big deal, because this is going to happen but what if mig 21 kills F-22 and survive is good deal.


In 1965 war PAF is far advance then IAF and its true that IAF lost more plane but it also true IAF flown more sorties with less advacne plane.
 
Yes yes your right.. the PAF was operating X-wings and Y-Wings with you guys fighting on donkeyback...
Now stop whining about it!.
 
Yes yes your right.. the PAF was operating X-wings and Y-Wings with you guys fighting on donkeyback...
Now stop whining about it!.

Again someone coming out of the books from the other side. SANTRO change your name to Destro you have earned it good answer. Geo mare lal.:cheers:
 

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