livingdead
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your watan is kashmir..Apna watan ziyadaa aziiz haii mujhe !
Possible Solution to Kashmir Issue
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Armstrong
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Mana Watan eh Pakistan, Mani Jaan eh Pakistan !
livingdead
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you know you are just lying to yourself...
AhsanAmin
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I think one way to solve the related contentious matters is that both countries have a comprehensive dialogue on the Kashmir issue and work out an agreed goal that has to be finally achieved. And then they take a series of steps, whose details would already have been agreed in approximate, over a period of time, one by one, and this will help them notice the honesty of the other partner country in the agreement, and what effects this reconciliation process has on the Kashmiris and both the countries. This process of moving together towards the final goal should not be too slow and not too fast either, so that each country can very easily assure the success of the process. And there should be a predefined way of conflict resolution, and addressing the right concerns of the other country that might arise as the process evolves but were not taken into account earlier, this would also prevent any unfortunate developments and acts of hostilities from enemies of peace in both countries that could to abruptly disrupt this process of reconciliation. Here important thing is that the spirit of reconciliation is kept alive throughout the process, and this is more important than religious adherence to any preset details.
This should help address the Indian concerns for trust deficit, and really if the two countries get closer to each other after the resolution of this conflict, we could see Pakistanis and Indians moving freely in each other's country, something both Pakistanis and Indians long today and would love to do in the future. Though it might still take a decade or two to see people of the two nations finally travel casually into the other country.
This would gradually help change the current generally hostile opinion of people about each other in both countries, and once they come closer, the image of two neighbors will continue to become better and softer which will also decrease the possibility of any future conflict. And this is probably the only way towards a friendship that educated and intelligent people in both countries long for.
This should help address the Indian concerns for trust deficit, and really if the two countries get closer to each other after the resolution of this conflict, we could see Pakistanis and Indians moving freely in each other's country, something both Pakistanis and Indians long today and would love to do in the future. Though it might still take a decade or two to see people of the two nations finally travel casually into the other country.
This would gradually help change the current generally hostile opinion of people about each other in both countries, and once they come closer, the image of two neighbors will continue to become better and softer which will also decrease the possibility of any future conflict. And this is probably the only way towards a friendship that educated and intelligent people in both countries long for.
PoKeMon
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Why so? Did any state got the privilege of deciding its own fate? Who knows I chose to be independent if given a choice.
The only reason you support this is a greedy hope in getting some land by decades of militancy efforts.
T90TankGuy
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What an insightful post.
Chak Bamu
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Here is an interesting Indian perspective from some one who knows the art of co-existence and Kashmir. I suppose that this is what Indians would be agreeable to, but Pakistan would find it hard to settle for LOC = Border.
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Revive the Nehru solution
January 24, 2014 2:24 am
A mutually recognised border between states is a prerequisite for stable relations. Its presence will not guarantee good neighbourly relations, but its absence will almost certainly guarantee tension. This is as true of the Af-Pak border as of the India-Pakistan border, not only along the international frontier but equally along the dividing line in Jammu and Kashmir. Good fences make good neighbours, provided they are built on a line accepted by both.
It should be in the interests of both India and Pakistan to settle this long-festering problem. Both are investing large amounts of human and material resources. For India, we should want to resolve it since it has compelled us to deploy significant numbers of our security forces; it gives a handle to Pakistan to rake up the issue every now and then internationally on human rights grounds; and since it adversely affects the lives of citizens there in many ways. For Pakistan also, it ought to make sense to want to resolve the issue.
Both countries say they want to settle the issue. But if each side maintains its position undiluted, it is as good as saying that they do not care if the problem keeps festering. This implies that neither India nor Pakistan has given up hope of achieving its maximum: for India, recovering the third of Kashmir still in Pakistan’s possession, and occupying the whole of J&K, especially the Valley, for Pakistan. It is not as if each side does not recognise the utter futility of achieving its territorial ambition, but because of domestic political compulsions, they feel obliged to maintain unchanged their impossible-to-realise objective.
For India, stating that we are prepared to discuss all issues including Kashmir, no longer sounds convincing. For Pakistan, the formula of invoking UN resolutions might work domestically but is counterproductive from India’s perspective and only shows that Pakistan is not really interested in looking for ways to resolve the issue. The time may have come to tell Pakistan that there is no point in talking about Kashmir if it persists in its inflexible stand of UN resolutions, etc. The international community will understand and appreciate such an approach. Many in India are convinced that Pakistan is not keen on finding a solution since this is one issue on which the government and military there can easily mobilise public opinion and whip up anti-Indian propaganda. Also, the removal of the Kashmir issue from the Indo-Pak agenda would eliminate the rationale for the Pakistan army’s preeminent position. However, in view of the current critical situation in Pakistan, a mutually acceptable solution would or ought to weaken the jihadist elements who exploit it to raise funds and recruit more people to their ranks.
Jawaharlal Nehru, in a note to Sheikh Abdullah dated August 25, 1952, described the problem: “The state (of J&K) is of importance, from strategic and other points of view, to both India and Pakistan. Hence, the conflict between the two.” He did not stop there, but went on to think of possible ways to avoid war and arrive at peace. His proposed solution needs to be revived.
“We are superior to Pakistan in military and industrial power. But that superiority is not so great as to produce results quickly either in war or fear of war,” he continued. His conclusion: “the only possible way of putting an end to this conflict is by accepting, more or less, the status quo.” Nehru added: “We were not prepared to give up any territory that we possessed to Pakistan, but we might, for the sake of peace, agree to their holding what they had then had.” Nehru told Abdullah that this conclusion was not a pleasant one for him but “logically I could not help arriving at it”. He also conveyed to the Sheikh that he had mentioned this to Clement Attlee and Ernest Bevin in London in the last quarter of 1948, that is, even before the ceasefire came into existence on January 1, 1949. He had also mentioned this to Pakistan’s prime minister, Liaquat Ali Khan.
Nehru did not hesitate to openly air his idea. In a public meeting in Delhi on April 13, 1956, he declared: “I am willing to accept that the question of the part of Kashmir that is under Pakistan should be settled by demarcation of the border on the basis of the present ceasefire line, we have no desire to take it by fighting”. (All quotes are from A.G. Noorani’s book, The Kashmir Dispute.)
The Zulfikar Ali Bhutto-Swaran Singh talks in 1962-63 were serious, though perhaps not sincere, negotiations, with maps exchanged and lines drawn. India made a generous offer of giving 1,500 square kilometres more than what Pakistan occupied at that time, but Pakistan was greedy. It felt that India was so weak after the war with China that it would yield to international pressure and agree to its terms. Bhutto was ready to offer only the district of Kathua to India, keeping everything else, including Ladakh, for Pakistan. No wonder the negotiations led nowhere.
What Nehru said in 1952 about war or threat of war not being the solution is even truer today, with both countries possessing nuclear weapons. Hence, if the logic of the desirability of finding a solution is valid, some effort to revive his prescription would seem to be called for. Prime Minister Indira Gandhi too favoured such a solution. From all published accounts of the Shimla meeting between her and Bhutto in July 1972, the latter had promised her that on return to Pakistan, he would initiate the process of turning the LoC into an international border. When he failed to keep his promise, we in India criticised him, accusing him of bad faith, etc. This suggests that most people on our side would have accepted the settlement.
When Nehru broached the idea of a settlement on the basis of status quo to Atlee and Bevin in 1948, he was perhaps indicating to them that he would be prepared to accept their help in striking such a deal; otherwise, why should he mention it to the British leaders who had been far from helpful to India in the Security Council? Was he, in a not too indirect way, hinting at their mediation? Nehru was definitely opposed to arbitration but he did not seem to have the same attitude towards outside help in some form.
As for the militants in Kashmir, if they care for the wellbeing of fellow Kashmiris, they too must come to terms with reality. They know, or ought to know, that Pakistan is only using them for its attempt to destabilise India and is not in the least concerned about the suffering of Kashmiris.
India and Pakistan never tire of saying that their main concern is the welfare of the Kashmiri people. In that case, both countries must move out of their entrenched positions. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee too had spoken of “bold and imaginative” steps in his “Musings from Kumarakom” in January 2001. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has categorically declared that there was no question of territorial compromise or concession. Pervez Musharraf had declared that “borders should be made irrelevant”. But for the border to become irrelevant there must first be a border. So long as there is no settled border, the temptation to secure territorial advantage will always remain. Hence, some formula, such as the one Nehru was prepared to countenance, including external help, will have to be considered. Many would say that the time is not propitious now. But will there ever be a right time? Civil society in both countries might have to take a lead in the matter.
Chinmaya R. Gharekhan is India’s former permanent representative at the UN, is adjunct senior fellow, Delhi Policy Group. Views are personal
Revive the Nehru solution | The Indian Express | Page 99
@AhsanAmin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revive the Nehru solution
January 24, 2014 2:24 am
A mutually recognised border between states is a prerequisite for stable relations. Its presence will not guarantee good neighbourly relations, but its absence will almost certainly guarantee tension. This is as true of the Af-Pak border as of the India-Pakistan border, not only along the international frontier but equally along the dividing line in Jammu and Kashmir. Good fences make good neighbours, provided they are built on a line accepted by both.
It should be in the interests of both India and Pakistan to settle this long-festering problem. Both are investing large amounts of human and material resources. For India, we should want to resolve it since it has compelled us to deploy significant numbers of our security forces; it gives a handle to Pakistan to rake up the issue every now and then internationally on human rights grounds; and since it adversely affects the lives of citizens there in many ways. For Pakistan also, it ought to make sense to want to resolve the issue.
Both countries say they want to settle the issue. But if each side maintains its position undiluted, it is as good as saying that they do not care if the problem keeps festering. This implies that neither India nor Pakistan has given up hope of achieving its maximum: for India, recovering the third of Kashmir still in Pakistan’s possession, and occupying the whole of J&K, especially the Valley, for Pakistan. It is not as if each side does not recognise the utter futility of achieving its territorial ambition, but because of domestic political compulsions, they feel obliged to maintain unchanged their impossible-to-realise objective.
For India, stating that we are prepared to discuss all issues including Kashmir, no longer sounds convincing. For Pakistan, the formula of invoking UN resolutions might work domestically but is counterproductive from India’s perspective and only shows that Pakistan is not really interested in looking for ways to resolve the issue. The time may have come to tell Pakistan that there is no point in talking about Kashmir if it persists in its inflexible stand of UN resolutions, etc. The international community will understand and appreciate such an approach. Many in India are convinced that Pakistan is not keen on finding a solution since this is one issue on which the government and military there can easily mobilise public opinion and whip up anti-Indian propaganda. Also, the removal of the Kashmir issue from the Indo-Pak agenda would eliminate the rationale for the Pakistan army’s preeminent position. However, in view of the current critical situation in Pakistan, a mutually acceptable solution would or ought to weaken the jihadist elements who exploit it to raise funds and recruit more people to their ranks.
Jawaharlal Nehru, in a note to Sheikh Abdullah dated August 25, 1952, described the problem: “The state (of J&K) is of importance, from strategic and other points of view, to both India and Pakistan. Hence, the conflict between the two.” He did not stop there, but went on to think of possible ways to avoid war and arrive at peace. His proposed solution needs to be revived.
“We are superior to Pakistan in military and industrial power. But that superiority is not so great as to produce results quickly either in war or fear of war,” he continued. His conclusion: “the only possible way of putting an end to this conflict is by accepting, more or less, the status quo.” Nehru added: “We were not prepared to give up any territory that we possessed to Pakistan, but we might, for the sake of peace, agree to their holding what they had then had.” Nehru told Abdullah that this conclusion was not a pleasant one for him but “logically I could not help arriving at it”. He also conveyed to the Sheikh that he had mentioned this to Clement Attlee and Ernest Bevin in London in the last quarter of 1948, that is, even before the ceasefire came into existence on January 1, 1949. He had also mentioned this to Pakistan’s prime minister, Liaquat Ali Khan.
Nehru did not hesitate to openly air his idea. In a public meeting in Delhi on April 13, 1956, he declared: “I am willing to accept that the question of the part of Kashmir that is under Pakistan should be settled by demarcation of the border on the basis of the present ceasefire line, we have no desire to take it by fighting”. (All quotes are from A.G. Noorani’s book, The Kashmir Dispute.)
The Zulfikar Ali Bhutto-Swaran Singh talks in 1962-63 were serious, though perhaps not sincere, negotiations, with maps exchanged and lines drawn. India made a generous offer of giving 1,500 square kilometres more than what Pakistan occupied at that time, but Pakistan was greedy. It felt that India was so weak after the war with China that it would yield to international pressure and agree to its terms. Bhutto was ready to offer only the district of Kathua to India, keeping everything else, including Ladakh, for Pakistan. No wonder the negotiations led nowhere.
What Nehru said in 1952 about war or threat of war not being the solution is even truer today, with both countries possessing nuclear weapons. Hence, if the logic of the desirability of finding a solution is valid, some effort to revive his prescription would seem to be called for. Prime Minister Indira Gandhi too favoured such a solution. From all published accounts of the Shimla meeting between her and Bhutto in July 1972, the latter had promised her that on return to Pakistan, he would initiate the process of turning the LoC into an international border. When he failed to keep his promise, we in India criticised him, accusing him of bad faith, etc. This suggests that most people on our side would have accepted the settlement.
When Nehru broached the idea of a settlement on the basis of status quo to Atlee and Bevin in 1948, he was perhaps indicating to them that he would be prepared to accept their help in striking such a deal; otherwise, why should he mention it to the British leaders who had been far from helpful to India in the Security Council? Was he, in a not too indirect way, hinting at their mediation? Nehru was definitely opposed to arbitration but he did not seem to have the same attitude towards outside help in some form.
As for the militants in Kashmir, if they care for the wellbeing of fellow Kashmiris, they too must come to terms with reality. They know, or ought to know, that Pakistan is only using them for its attempt to destabilise India and is not in the least concerned about the suffering of Kashmiris.
India and Pakistan never tire of saying that their main concern is the welfare of the Kashmiri people. In that case, both countries must move out of their entrenched positions. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee too had spoken of “bold and imaginative” steps in his “Musings from Kumarakom” in January 2001. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has categorically declared that there was no question of territorial compromise or concession. Pervez Musharraf had declared that “borders should be made irrelevant”. But for the border to become irrelevant there must first be a border. So long as there is no settled border, the temptation to secure territorial advantage will always remain. Hence, some formula, such as the one Nehru was prepared to countenance, including external help, will have to be considered. Many would say that the time is not propitious now. But will there ever be a right time? Civil society in both countries might have to take a lead in the matter.
Chinmaya R. Gharekhan is India’s former permanent representative at the UN, is adjunct senior fellow, Delhi Policy Group. Views are personal
Revive the Nehru solution | The Indian Express | Page 99
@AhsanAmin
Alpha1
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One liner useless comment, was expecting better from you
livingdead
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Its not acceptable to us, Indians.
We can however have easy to move border there, and kashmiris can freely cross without needing visa.
(if we can inject a miniaturized gps tracker to every kashmiri that crosses the border)
not a satisfactory solution for us. there are 3 parties and solution should be acceptable to all of them.
Skies
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Logically the solution should be satisfying to the internationally recognized suppressed and victim Kashmiris, the local massive indigenous inhabitants, and its biggest sympathizer and neighbor aka Pakistan. Since India is the oppressor, satisfactory solution to India is irrelevant. And of course, Kashmiries and PK make 2 parties among the three, the mejority.
livingdead
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as India is status quo power, the ground reality is, a solution not acceptable to India is not a viable proposition.
If one ones to solve the problem one should only propose solution that has chance of being implemented.
Its 3 way bargain with each having veto power, majority does not mean much.
Skies
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India is the status quo power because of its might and economy, which could alter in future if the Kashmiris and its supporters get more might than India.
A satisfactory proposition to Kashmiris migh not be satisfactory to India, or vice verse, hence, the problem and conflicts are still in that region. Since Kashmir being with India is not solving the problem yet, the seperaion is the only way out, and that would dissatisfy India, or India will have to compromise.
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