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JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

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credits housanghai


old tidbit by Eagle Hannan

I knew it was wrong. I did point it out. The displayed SD-10A was not the one Pakistan opted for nor was it the latest one. I remember very clearly the team that evaluated SD-10 back in 2006 telling me that this missile was tested in Pakistan over a Mirrage (yes Mirrage. And Pakistan did acquire many missiles to test back in 2007 because of of experience with SD-10. 3 different ones including Darter as well) and they were not very happy with the weight and anti-jamming capability. It was SD-10A they tested again in 2008 and finally other options for JF-17 was dropped in the favour of SD-10B. It will be lighter and much more potent.
The whole avionic thing for thunder was pending back in 2007 just because of the BVR options. R-Darter was not selected because the manufacturer was suffering from economic crunch and did not show good promise in future development. Honestly, I thank Allah for helping us in our decissions because the Denel Dynamics did offer us partnership in development but we held back. At that time, it looked like we made a mistake but now its clear that Denel Dynamics would have dragged us down if we were to do partnership with them and for sure would have made us dependant on Western Radar manufacturers presenting another headache of integrating home grown lot of weapons.
China on the other hand made much more faster progress in all sectors of miliatry jets including Missiles and Avionics. Look at the faster transission from SD-10 baseline to B model. The same team was full of phrase for it this time around. I can bet with this pace, siding up with China was best decission.
With that PL9C is also an interm solution. A western option (not sure which one) and an all new Chinese option is on the table. Yet again Chinese Vs West is on for the next block of JF-17 for SRAAM. PL9C will serve on F7PGs for as long as they are in service.
Thunder's new batch is ready and already in testing Only induction announcement is left to be made.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-68.html#post1358121
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-68.html#post1358201
 
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credits husnain

nabil--
Current canopy gives a good all round view as is the case in most modern fighters. Bubble canopy, as good as it is, also comes with additional drag and has its share of disadvantages and some airframe modifications will also be required. So far, at least, i never heard of a bubble canopy option on the JFT but i could be wrong.

I am interested here in the "greater than Mach 5" speed!! .... ... and how it relates to the range considering it is "only greater than 70km". I want to bring this speed in the discussion and how it comapres with other missiles and their ranges.

At 156kg and Mach 4, the maximum kinetic energy for the AIM-120 = 144.481 megajoules.

At 199kg and Mach 5, the maximum kinetic energy for the SD-10 = 287.555 megajoules.

The SD-10 has twice the kinetic energy and with an indentical body (???) it is interesting that the SD-10 will not have at least the same range!!!

Any thoughts?

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aesa
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-72.html#post1386757


nabil-
WMD-7 has performed better than expected in all weather, foggy, day night conditions in China and Pakistan. It has replaced Chinese legacy pods and is now the standard targeting pod in PLAAF service. In PAF, it falls between the SNIPER, ATLIS, slightly inferior than former, much enhanced than latter. Should be on par with Litenning 2 at least.
requires One hardpoint for now, should be on chin pylon from second blk onwards...

klj-7 currently has 550 watt output power and is powerful enough, but plans are in place for locally produced radar to have 600 watt (yes folks, 600) watt which will give it as much power as in APG-68 v9 ! but its radar antenna size will remain same. ISAR will be introduced, other modes will remain same but range will be increased. Overall, i expect it to be as capable as V9 in general capability but less in range. MTBF is around 300 hours. AESA is being worked out in China and is going through final trials. Blk 3 will have AESA but it will be tested on a prototype in China and then in Pakistan......

The more powerful transmitter, more options available such as more range, functions, processing speed, cooling, etc, although range greatly counts on antenna size too...Also, ESA antenna can be enabled on current klj-7 too !

How much do you want from a light fighter? Its radar can guide four, not two sd-10s simultaneously, search range is 150 kms, MTBF 230 hours, 30 modes of functions, this all gives it a good cost to performance ratio, is being improved and built in house, better than the rest of our radar inventory except the APG 68 V9 but than V9 is better than most pulse dopplers in the world anyway

F-7= Grifo-7=200-250 watt

f-16 blk 15= 300-350 watt

Rose Mirage= Grifo M3= 400-450 watt

Grifo-S (JFT earlier) =500-560 watt

KLJ-7 (JFT current)=550 watt (soon 600-650)

When I looked at the radar equation, solving for the range, you have to use the 4th root of the power .... ...

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Now is you substitute (550)^0.25 by 650^0.25 the range will only increase by 4.2%. I therefore believe the increase in power points not necessarily to only the range, but other some hadware changes which would then give the improvement with more than the 4% on the range.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-74.html#post1391791



uptil page 75
 
The domestically produced Fierce Dragon fighter plane with the distributional synthesis optics aperture imaging system, this set of systems not yet equips on the Western third generation fighter aircraft even third generation half fighter aircraft [more on page9 of this thread]
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This is the reason why i kept saying that JFT airframe is flexible enough to accommodate more than one type of engines, originally, as per Chinese site, it was meanr to house the PW120 turbofan. Below is more.....

Four kind of overseas engine's contrasts

  The ultra 7 initial design consideration was to make up annihilates 7 insufficiencies, satisfied Pakistan to the advanced fighter aircraft's need. In order to meet this need, the US dashing motive producer has also put out the respective plan. But regarding “wears a sword”ⅡAfterward and by annihilated 7 nose air admissions to change to the side mounted air ducts ultra 7, the preamble states the turbojet 7 second grade motor power already could not satisfy the request. In fact, at that time the Chinese another kind of nose air admission changed the side mounted air ducts the fighter aircraft to annihilate 8ⅡAlso had already replaced the engine, changes turbojet 13A by the turbojet 7 armor II. But speaking of its performance capability, the turbojet 13 thrust forces have not been able to meet the ultra 7 needs by far, Pakistan will not have the interest obviously to it. But the 80s is precisely China and the West relates the best honeymoon time, ultra 7 select the Western power also to become China and Pakistan not two choices.  at the beginning of 1987, American Pratt · Whitney company's international project Director Stephen · Huggins lead a group to Beijing to attend the symposium, proposed three plans chose for China and Pakistan: PW1120 this is one kind of continual deflation type turbojet engine, is the F100 turbofan engine's modification. The Pu · benefit company at that time developed PWll20, is mainly considers and F404 and the RB199 engine's thrust increment competition next generation fighter aircraft's power, therefore to reduce the development risk, selected the F100 nuclear plans to carry on the development, both had 60% parts to be possible to use in common. Israel first in 1981 decided that used PW1120 to take its new “the lion” the (Lavi) single shot fighter aircraft's power unit, the substitution once had considered the F404 engine (in fact, F404 was also the ultra 7 consideration second kind of power). The reason is the PWll20 specific thrust F404 great 1800 kilograms, is advantageous in the enhancement “the lion” operational performance; Moreover considered the versatile questions, Israel already purchased installs F100 F-15 and the F-16 fighter aircraft, therefore chooses the PWll20 achievement “the lion” the power is the unwisest decision. Except for this, the F4 fighter aircraft then also considered that the successor model selects PWll20. The F-4 standard power unit is the J79 engine which the 50s develops, although its performance is very good, and has installed many kinds of fighter aircrafts and the attack airplane, but was truly already aged, is unable to satisfy 20 century's ends the air fight demands. PW1120 can make up J79 exactly in the thrust force insufficiency, satisfies F-4 to increase pushes the demand. As to the performance, PWll20 compares the J79 length short 1.3 meters, therefore might install in the F4 engine compartment; The thrust augmentation thrust force grows 15%, the thrust augmentation thrust force does not grow 14%; Weight saving 26%, pushed the ratio to increase 55%; The thrust augmentation oil consumption reduces 5.6%, the thrust augmentation oil consumption does not reduce 5.0%.

The PW1120 main design feature is:①The low pressure air compressor's design uses the PW1128 engine and Pu · favors on other confirmation engine mechanical and the air operated technology, with the F100 ventilator design's main diversity is the electron beam welding titanium alloy plate drum rotor, the low aspect ratio leaf blade (component testing proof, although its level of supercharger ratios and level load have enhancement, but leaf blade intensity still could satisfy request), the stator structure and a reduced components quantity unsplit crankcase, and improved the low pressure air compressor's maintainability comprehensively. Compared with F100 increases lost speed the allowance, moved the gas lever in the entire flight envelope scope not to limit; For the guarantee flight safety, the low pressure air compressor's engine case design forms a pair the complete leaf blade to have the containing ability; After the low pressure air compressor's maintainable characteristic is dismantles the air intake, may disassemble, the replacement low pressure air compressor stator and the rotor blade from front, but does not need to dismantle the entire low pressure air compressor from ' the engine.

②Low pressure turbine. Because the PW1120 vectored thrust ratio reduces, its import air flow probably reduces to F100 75%, therefore PW1120 may remove the second level of low pressure turbine and reduce the components quantity. The non-cooling low pressure turbine disk, the work leaf blade and the turning vane have used with the F100 engine same material, and enables the cold part's life to amount to for 4000 hours, the hot component life amounts to for 2000 hours, tallies with general hot end part 4000TAC. The work leaf blade and the turning vane use the PW1142 directional freeze alloy and the INl00 nickel base alloy separately, for the guarantee flight safety, the low pressure turbine engine case designs can contain the complete leaf blade.

  ③Afterburner and nozzle. The PW1120 turbojet engine for the single laid class thrust augmentation, (i.e. inside and outside contains mix thrust augmentation) with the F100 double strand class mix thrust augmentation to compare, its afterburner and the nozzle structure is simple moreover the weight to be light, the length also drops. PW1120 has used ordinary “V” the die flame stabilizer and 5 radial direction gap spurts the district oil supply system which the oil ring constitutes, obtains the even fuel oil density distribution. Spurts oil ring's geometrical shape and continuously the feed adjustment, causes time the thrust augmentation response time and the district transformation pressure peak peak value reduces to is smallest. Single “V” die flame stabilizer including whole radiating interior and exterior spoke type stabler, and enables the afterburner efficiency by the smallest blocking to achieve high. From in trough tail cone body's support for the flame stabilizer by the essential stability, resists the asymmetrical aerodynamic load, and to high frequency and the low frequency vibration absorber function. In order to enhance the security, PW1120 erection of engine dual ignition systems and ignition detector, not only enhances the reliability, moreover also provided has satisfied the partial ignition gas oil ratio which each igniter needed: Most suits in the sea level ignition, but another is suitable in the upper air low Mach condition ignition.

  The ignition detector can prevent, because after delayed ignition or afterburner flameout, ignites again the high pressure peak which follows produces. The ignition detector when the discovery afterburner does not ignite is the termination afterburner feed, and restores the engine to the middle thrust rating. In the flameout situation, does not need pilot any movement, automatic turnoff afterburner feed; The engine restores after the middle thrust rating regains the thrust augmentation condition again. PW1120 is adjustable restrains an effuser, compares with the F100 engine, its nozzle length is short, the structure is simple, the weight is light. Restraining and the effuser area's change by 3 F100 engine's spheroidal - screw rod pneumatic motor actuator, actuates synchronized restraining along the grooved track to adjust the proglottis to take in and put away realizes. The non-cooling exterior proliferation adjusts the proglottis to have restraining to adjust the proglottis to affect, causes the predetermined area to compare along with restrains nozzle's position variation.

  ④Main combustion chamber and F100 basic same, but uses the turbulent flow mouth type fuel injection nozzle, improved the fuel pulverization quality, raised the combustion efficiency, and adopts the enhancement cooling performance the measure.

  ⑤The high pressure turbine uses the unit crystal leaf blade to replace F100 the directional freeze leaf blade, the first level of leaf blade uses the seed case of lotus flower hairstyle cooling plan, improves the cooling performance and the extension life; The second level of guide apparatus strengthened cooling to reduce the thermal load, the second level of leaf blade has also made the suitable improvement, the entire high pressure turbine part's durability improved compared to F100, achieves 2500 circulations. May apply on similarly PW1120 for the F100 development's new turbine wheel part, it is said that may enhance the turbine wheel life circulation to 5500 times.

  ⑥By the low pressure air compressor continual luck 15.5%, this air current after the air casing, the turbine casing, the thrust augmentation tube body and the nozzle outer wall discharges, carries on cooling to the above part. The reason that PWll20 is called continuously the deflation type, namely acquires fame from this. The above improvement not only may cause PWll20 to work with the F100 same maximum temperature, moreover its operating temperature is lower than F100 in flight envelope's majority of regions, but the performance index has not fallen. Not only this lengthened the engine service life, but also cut the life failure rate, to reduce the maintenance cost. The new engine will also continue from the execution in the F100 engine component improvement program to obtain the income, further reduces the average life expense.

Heart of the Fierce Dragon: China once planned introduction US standard PW1120 engine _ the Sina military _ Sina Net
 
MODS / ADMIN thanks for making it a sticky --i am greatful for the ongoing CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FRIENDS , as a result of which different foreign forums are recommending the link of this thread for the comprehensive / nonspam info on jft -- such a thread was very important considering wiki info regarding jft changes every other day by you know whom
:pakistan: :china:


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MODS / ADMIN thanks for making it a sticky --i am greatful for the ongoing CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FRIENDS , as a result of which different foreign forums are recommending the link of this thread for the comprehensive / nonspam info on jft -- such a thread was very important considering wiki info regarding jft changes every other day by you know whom
:pakistan: :china:

155841_218275348_JF17R3Final.jpg


Are these PSed the rumored ones? what surprises me is that person forgot to include bump inlet.......the PS uses old conventional inlet design :)

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

MODS / ADMIN thanks for making it a sticky --i am greatful for the ongoing CONTRIBUTIONS FROM FRIENDS , as a result of which different foreign forums are recommending the link of this thread for the comprehensive / nonspam info on jft -- such a thread was very important considering wiki info regarding jft changes every other day by you know whom
:pakistan: :china:

155841_218275348_JF17R3Final.jpg


Are these PSed the rumored ones? what surprises me is that person forgot to include bump inlet.......the PS uses old conventional inlet design :)
 
i think it was one of the first and best cgi [computer generated image] of jft - i dont think is a ps -- however i dont want to comment at length as this is a no spam thread;)
 
Pakistan & China’s JF-17 Fighter Program
UPDATE

May 23, 2011


The JF-17 is a joint Chinese-Pakistani project that aimed to reduce Pakistan’s dependence on western firms for advanced fighters, by fielding a low-cost multi-role lightweight fighter that would host modern electronics, and represent a step up from its Chinese MiG-19/21 derivatives, and French Mirage fighters. This positioning addresses a market that the West once dominated, but has nearly abandoned in recent decades.

China has made no decisions yet for the PLAAF, but Pakistan has signed an agreement for the first 42 operational JF-17 aircraft, and is reportedly seeking additional agreements with Western firms for avionics and weapons upgrades. India’s competing Tejas fighter is overcoming project delays by looking to foreign component sources, but Pakistan and China remain out front with their offering. The 2 countries have set up a joint JF-17 marketing agency to promote export sales, and their offering has received initial interest.

The JF-17 Thunder, aka. FC-1 Fierce Dragon [updated]
JF-17/FC-1: The Program [updated]
Stuck in Sichuan: The Saga
Updates and Key Events [updated]
Additional Readings
The JF-17 Thunder, aka. FC-1 Fierce Dragon


JF-17 at IDEAS 2008
The JF-17/FC-1 is a sub-$20 million fighter designed as a co-operative venture between Pakistan and China to replace Chinese A-5C (massively modified MiG-19), F-7P (MiG-21+), and French Mirage 3/5 aircraft in Pakistan’s fleet. China also has options to produce them, but has made no firm decisions and seems unenthusiastic. It’s a comparable peer for India’s still-under-development LCA Tejas, Taiwan’s -1 Ching Kuo fighters, and South Korea’s F/A-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer & light fighter.

The design itself is fairly conventional, resembling a somewhat boxy F-20. A drag chute can be installed at the base of the rudder, in order to make landings easier and shorter. Power will be provided by the RD-93 derivative of the MiG-29’s RD-33, giving the aircraft an engine that is reliable and widely used, but known to leave smoke trails. Future models may see the engine replaced with China’s WS-13, an RD-93 copy with some modifications. Avionics involve a modern “glass” cockpit of digital screens, using Chinese technologies, commercial processors, and reports that software coding was done in the commercial C++ language rather than a military language like Ada.

Conflicting reports exist regarding its databuses: MIL-STD-1553, or the more advanced MIL-STD-1760. That will affect its range of usable weapons, and GPS-guided weapons in particular require the -1760 databus.

Its multi-mode radar is also somewhat less than clear. China’s KLJ-7 mechanically-scanned array, or the derivative KLJ-10 that equips China’s J-10/FC-20 fighters, are now the most likely, despite media references to a deal with Thales, or to the Selex Galileo’s Grifo – which already equips Pakistan’s F-7s (Grifo-7), and some of its Mirage III/Vs (Grifo M3/M5). Selex Galileo’s own materials [PDF] describe the Grifo S7 as “The version selected for the JF-17 aircraft”, but multiple reports in November 2010 indicate that its radar will be Chinese instead.


Farnborough array
Fixed weapons include a GSh-23 dual-barrel 23mm cannon, which can be upgraded to a GSh-30 dual-30mm cannon at a weight and ammunition penalty. Up to 3,700 kg/ 8,150 pounds of payload can be carried on its centerline station, plus 2 underwing and 1 wingtip pylons on each wing. The aircraft will reportedly be qualified to take AIM-9P Sidewinder or Chinese PL-7/8/9 short range air-to-air missiles on the wingtip rails and underwing. China’s PL-12/SD-10 missiles have been confirmed as its medium range aerial weapon.

At present, the main questions concerning Pakistan’s JF-17s revolve around integrated sensors and weapons, rather than the aircraft itself or its performance. The Farnborough 2010 display showed Chinese air-air missiles, a LeiShi-6 guided glide bomb, China’s C802 anti-ship missile, and even a laser designator pod. Full status as a recognized multirole fighter, however, must wait until their the ability to use precision laser guidance and/or GPS-guided ground attack weapons is confirmed.

JF-17/FC-1: The Program

Sino Defense reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 ‘Xiaolong’ has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the “Super-7” upgrade project, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the program with its own resources, and the project was eventually re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1).

The next big step forward for FC-1 came when the USA imposed military export sanctions in response to Pakistan’s nuclear program, and to Chinese-Pakistani transfers of ballistic missile components. With spares for its top-of-the-line F-16s in question, and additional F-16s removed as an option, Pakistan sought help from its Chinese ally.

A joint development and production agreement was signed in June 1999, with China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contributing 50% of the estimated $150 million in development costs. The design was finalized in 2001, with initial prototype flights beginning in 2003. A JF-17 did not fly with its full avionics suite until 2006, but testing and development appear to have progressed smoothly. Until political complications intervened.

Unfortunately for India, the engine export understanding that they thought they had with Russia, was reversed by Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin. JF-17 production began in 2009.


Chinese J-7E
Ultimately, Pakistan intends to induct 150-250 JF-17s into its air force, replacing most of its Mirage III/Vs, F-7s (Chinese MiG-21 copies), and A-5Cs (massively modified Chinese MiG-19 derivatives). The A-5s will retire more or less immediately as JF-17s enter service, and the Mirages are next in line for replacement due to their uncertain spares situation. The number of JF-17s requested could rise, and some reports place potential Pakistani orders as high as 300 aircraft. Even at the JF-17’s bargain price, however, Pakistan’s budgets will be hard-pressed to afford that many. In the short term, even reaching the desired goal of 150 JF-17s could prove challenging without external aid.

China has remained on the fence regarding the program, with no PLAAF orders to date. Their air force appears to be more focused on their 4+ generation J-10 design, which offers more advanced capabilities and aerodynamics. The FC-1 remains a candidate to replace large numbers of PLAAF MiG-17s (J-5) and MiG-19s (J-6/ Q-5), if the PLAAF decides it needs to take steps to maintain the size of its force. If not, the FC-1’s role is likely to resemble the Northrop F-5’s. The USA sold them in large numbers to other countries, even as the USAF equipped itself with larger and more expensive designs instead.

Stuck in Sichuan: The Saga
The Pakistan Government had hoped to sign a deal to acquire 150 JF-17/FC-1 fighters in 2007, with 8 aircraft in service by year’s end. China had reportedly even bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract for another 400 engines.

In January 2007, however, Forecast International reported that Russia had refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. According to FI the decision came only a few days after a visit to India by Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a “5th generation fighter” project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract. January 2007, DID:

“The military world has no shortage of irony. The defense industry has its moments too, as Pakistan just discovered. An aircraft whose development was driven by military sanctions from the US and Europe is now derailed by military sanctions [regarding its engines]. This leaves the Pakistani Air Force dependent on an alternative from… America. Meanwhile, the Chinese are left with no export launch customer for a plane they may now have to reluctantly buy themselves, instead of the favoured and more capable J-10. Somewhere in Delhi, champagne is pouring – but first, a bit of background.”

Coincidence? Didn’t look like it. Replacement with another engine? Unless it’s a very close copy, that requires re-work of the entire fighter design and takes years. Just ask the Chinese J-10 project team.

As it turned out, however, that wasn’t necessary. The arms market also features no shortage of change, and Russia eventually chose not prevent re-export of the RD-93 engines, in an announcement that caught even India’s diplomats by surprise. The RD-93 comes with some disadvantages, including a tendency to leave smoke trails, but tacit re-export approval removed a huge potential roadblock and let the program proceed more or less on schedule.

Updates and Key Events

PL-12 & PL-8 on JF-17
May 19/11: Shortly after American special forces killed Osama Bin Laden in a unilateral raid 40 miles from Islamabad, Pakistan announces a wide swath of major defense projects with China. The most consequential is that the deep water port of Gwadar in western Pakistan will be run by its paymasters, the Chinese government. Pakistan also wants the Chinese to build a naval base there, and no doubt expects to have its own ships use that facility alongside the Chinese PLAN.

The flashiest aspect of the announcements involve the JF-17, with reports that China will be sending Pakistan 50 improved JF-17 fighters, with upgraded electronics. To date, JF-17s have rolled off of Pakistani manufacturing/finishing lines, but these will reportedly involve more Chinese manufacturing to speed delivery, arriving within 6 months. Reports say that China is financing the deal, though they differ on the terms, and how much of the cost China is absorbing. Some reports paint the fighters as more or less a gift.

The interest in a batch of 50 more JF-17s isn’t a surprise, nor are the planned improvements (vid. Dec 22/10 entry). If deliveries do complete in that time frame, the end of 2011 will see Pakistan with over 92 serving JF-17s. India’s comparable Tejas will have over a year to go before the 1st squadron is formally inducted, and will still be waiting to conduct qualification tests of key weapons. DAWN | DAWN re: expediting | Kakuda Hafiz | Tribune || India’s NDTV | Economic Times || Wall St. Journal.


Chinese A-5/Q-5
April 12/11: PAF No. 16 Squadron at PAFB Peshawar becomes the 2nd operational squadron with the CAIC-PAC JF-17 Thunder.

The ceremony also marks the retirement of the PAF’s A-5C Fantans, a heavily modified derivative of the MiG-19. The Panthers of 16 Sqn. were the 1st PAF squadron to covert to the A-5C in 1983, and the last to operate the type. AirForces Monthly.

March 1/11: Aviation Week reports that Pakistan is in negotiations with the U.S. to get more Lockheed Martin F-16s, but also quotes PAF Air Chief Marshall Rao Qamar Suleman as saying that indigenous projects will remain a priority. As part of that effort, Pakistan intends to eventually field a supplementary datalink, which would work alongside the Link 16 systems carried by the F-16s and communicate with the JF-17 fleet. With respect to the JF-17s:

“Rao says Pakistan will have the second squadron of JF-17s enter operation at the end of March while simultaneously phasing out all of its Nanchang A-5s…. “As for the Chengdu F-7s and Dassault Mirages, we will phase these out as we get JF-17s,” Rao says. “Some of Pakistan’s Mirages are the oldest in the world,” he says, adding that some were built in 1967. Phasing out the older Mirages is a top priority. The Mirages are difficult and costly to maintain because no one is producing spare parts for these aircraft anymore, he says. “We are getting secondhand parts, but we don’t know the history of these spare parts we are getting. It’s a flight safety issue and a nightmare for me,” he adds.”

Jan 26/11: Iraqi Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh tells a press conference that the Council of Ministers has approved the purchase of 18 F-16s, and budgeted an unspecified sum. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki who is also the acting Defense Minister, would negotiate the deal’s final parameters. There has been talk of a $13 billion weapons buy, which would include the existing DSCA request for F-16IQs, but no confirmation as yet.

The USA will reportedly deliver the F-16s to Iraq within 2-3 years, but in the meantime, and even for some time thereafter, Iraq will not be able to police its own airspace effectively. Iraq Order of Battle author DJ Elliott believes that 2018 would be the earliest. The French are presenting a complementary offer of upgraded Mirage F1s, and DJ Elliott reports that the Iraqis may also be looking at a 3rd option: China & Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder. Iraq-Business News | DJ Elliott’s Montrose Toast | UPI | Saudi Arab News re: Iraqi readiness.

Dec 22/10: Aviation Week reports that about half of the 42 JF-17s Pakistan has ordered are now in place, and one squadron is operational. PAF officials now plan to set up a 2nd unit. The focus, as is true in all initial inductions, is on getting all staff familiar with the equipment. Fully qualifying crews for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions will be the next step.

PAF Air Commodore Junaid told the magazine that the government hopes to order a second batch of 50 fighters in 2011, with undefined “enhanced features,” though the avionics package fielded on the baseline JF-17 has reportedly been a positive surprises.

Nov 18/10: Reports from Pakistan indicate that the PAF’s JF-17s will be equipped with Chinese radars and SD-10A/PL-12 medium range air-to-air missiles, thanks to a recent contract with China.

The Thales/MBDA ATE consortium had been seen as front runners for a $1.2 billion contract to equip the first 50 Pakistani JF-17s with radars and missiles, and could stand to reap another EUR 15 million or so per plane thereafter. In April 2010, however, Le Monde reported that the French government had refused to clear the deal. That’s not surprising, since France has a $4+ billion contract to build submarines for India, is competing in the $10-11 billion M-MRCA fighter competition, and wants to sell equipment like frigates and missiles in future. France isn’t in the same geo-political position as the USA, which means retaliation for a defense sale of that magnitude is more likely. France’s DCNS still won India’s Scorpene submarine contract, despite building Agosta AIP submarines for Pakistan, but the French government evidently decided not to chance it this time.

PAF Chief Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman told The Nation in an exclusive interview that “PAF has no plans to install Western devices and weapons on the aircraft for the time being.” Pakistan’s The Nation || Agence France Presse | India’s Hindustan Times | Russia’s RIA Novosti | India’s Sify.

July 5/10: India isn’t the only party with reservations about Russian engine exports for the JF-17. United Aircraft Corp. CEO Mikhail Pogosyan publicly opposes the sale of 100 RD-93 jet engines to China, citing the threat of FC-1/JF-17 competition against the MiG-29. He says that said the re-export of technologies should be approved by the original manufacturers to avoid unfair competition, but Rosoboronexports position is that re-export rights is a government decision with no manufacturer input. RIA Novosti adds that:

“A Russian aircraft industry source said the FC-1 is inferior to MiG-29 in performance, but sells for about $10 million, while the price of a MiG-29 is about $35 mln. MiG-29s are currently competing with FC-1s in an Egyptian tender on the delivery of 32 fighters. In addition, Egypt has launched negotiations with Pakistan on the licensed production of FC-1 aircraft. Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) approved the re-export of RD-93 engines to Egypt as part of the FC-1 fighter package in November 2007.”

Feb 18/10: The first squadron of JF-17 Thunder aircraft is formally indicted into Pakistan’s Air Force by Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman. DAWN.


Lift-off?
Dec 23/09: Myanmar (ex-Burma) reportedly buys 20 MiG-29s from Russia, preferring them over Chinese options that are said to have included the JF-17/ FC-1. Read “More MiG-29s for Myanmar.”

Nov 23/09: The first JF-17 Thunder built at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra rolls out. The rest of the order is expected to undergo final assembly at by PAC Kamra within the next 3 years. Associated Press of Pakistan | DAWN | Pakistan’s Daily Times | Pakistan’s The Nation | Pakistan Times | SANA News || Chandigarh Tribune | Press Trust of India | China’s Xinhua.

March 7/09: The Associated Press of Pakistan reports that a contract for 42 co-produced JF-17s has been signed in Islamabad by China’s CATIC and the Pakistani Air Force, financed by “seller’s credit.” Production capacity is listed at 15 aircraft in the first year, rising to 30 aircraft per year thereafter.

Pakistan has been flying 8 aircraft to work out tactics, techniques, and procedures, and expects to stand up the first JF-17 squadron before the end of 2009. The aircraft will be based at Peshawar, alongside existing Chinese-made Q-5/A-5C “Fantan” fighters that are a hugely modified Chinese derivative of the MiG-19, and their accompanying JJ-6/FT-6 MiG-19 trainers.

The article adds a quote from Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed. He reiterated that cooperation on China’s canard-winged J-10/FC-20 is also progressing, with first deliveries to Pakistan expected in 2014-15. CATIC’s President MA Zhiping reportedly added that the first FC-20 aircraft built under that agreement would fly in 2009. APP | Pakistan’s The News.

Jan 1/09: Associated Press of Pakistan quotes Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) chairman Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry HI (M) T Bt re: the JF-17 project, and PAC’s work more generally. The report was triggered by briefings associated with a visit from Sheikh Aftab Ahmad, head of the Standing Committee of the National Assembly on Defence Production. Air Marshal Chadhry reportedly said that PAC has the capability to manufacture 75% of the JF-17’s avionics, and 58% of its air frame.

The firm is currently deepening its experience and earning revenue by overhauling about 180 aircraft engines and 60 aircraft per year, including work undertaken by PAC’s Mirage rebuild factory that helps maintain Pakistan’s aged Mirage III/V fighters, and refurbishes scrap Mirages from other countries in order to keep overall fleet numbers up. High-tech avionics machinery recently imported “from various developed countries” is extending PACs capacity, and so has a $15 million contract from Boeing for aircraft parts.

Nov 28/08: Pakistani Ministry of Defence Production Secretary Shahid Siddiq Tirmizi claims that as many as 8 countries have shown interest in buying the JF-17 Thunder fighter. Azerbaijan, Sudan, and Zimbabwe are 3 countries that have been linked to export interest in the past. The News International.

A Pakistan Defense article widens that potential field to include Algeria, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Myanmar, Nigeria, and Sri Lanka.

Nov 20/08: Pakistani Chief of Air Staff ACM Tanvir Mahmood Ahmad says that aid the first JF-17 squadron would be inducted into the PAF fleet in the first quarter of 2009.

His accompanying announcement that another 36 high-tech combat aircraft (FC-20, probably a version of China’s J-10) would be inducted into the PAF fleet by 2010 got more attention, however. Pakistan Daily | Pak Tribune.

April 11/08: Jane’s Defence Weekly reports that:

“Pakistan and China have established a joint marketing organisation to promote international sales of their JF-17 ‘Thunder’ fighter aircraft, the head of the main Pakistani arms export agency has told Jane’s. Major General Muhammad Farooq, director general of Pakistan’s Defence Export Promotion Organisation (DEPO), described the JF-17 in early April as an ideal “choice for countries which are mindful of their finances.”

March 19/08: An article in Pakistan Defence claims that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) now has 8 JF-17 Thunder aircraft, after 6 more planes were received this March. All 8 will be used for testing testing and evaluation; the aircraft hasn’t been formally inducted into service yet.

Serial production has begun, and Pakistan’s Air Cheif Marshal reportedly said that about 60% of the airframe and 80% of the avionics would be manufactured in Pakistan by 2010, with production capacity rising to 25 aircraft per year by 2011. If true, it seems likely that deals with significant industrial offsets may be in the cards, as the article also claims that negotiations have begun with British, Italian, and French defense firms over potential avionics and other systems; France has reportedly offered its RC-400 radar and MBDA MICA missile.

Finally, the article claims that that:

“Thirteen countries have so far expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 aircraft are Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Sudan.”

Jan 22/08: According to India Defence, Pakistan’s national TV reports that it has begun in-country manufacturing of the JF-17 fighter. About half of the on-board equipment and avionics will be manufactured in Kamra, Pakistan, with the rest coming from China.

PakAF Chief of Air Staff Ahmed reportedly committed to 15 aircraft built in 2008 and 20 in 2009, with the goal of building 25-30 per year.


FC-1/ JF-17
Nov 29/07: The IWPA reports that:

“Azerbaijan is currently negotiating with Pakistan for the purchase of 24 Chinese-made JF-17 Thunder combat planes, worth between 16 and 18 million dollars each.”

In February 2009, however, Azerbaijan’s APA files a report that says the parties are still in talks, rather than under contract.

Nov 13/07: Jane’s Defense Weekly quotes Pakistani Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed as saying that the Pakistan Air Force will have an operational capability with JF-17 Thunder light fighter aircraft by the end of 2008, and expects to have its first 8 aircraft under a “small batch order” within the next few months.

“Speaking to Jane’s at the Dubai Air Show on 12 November, ACM Ahmed dismissed concerns over the Russian RD-93 engine that powers the joint Sino-Pakistan aircraft as “an issue created from here and there.”

April 26/07: India may need to hold that champagne, in the wake of recent reports. India Defence relays a report from the Russian newspaper Kommersant, which said that Vladimir Putin himself had personally supervised and signed a “Sino-Russian Fighter Assembly Agreement” which included joint assembly of JF-17 fighter aircraft with RD-93 engines, and their supply to third countries. Kommersant added that:

“This permission will enable the supply of 150 Chinese JF-17 fighter aircrafts to Pakistan, and help implement the contract for the supply of Russian engines worth USD 238 million.”

Kommersant added that “the permission does not imply Pakistan’s inclusion in the list of countries with which Russia has direct military-technical cooperation.” The question is whether Russian military-technical cooperation would be required under the Sino-Russian agreement. Meanwhile, the Indians appear to have been blindsided. The Press Counsellor of the Indian Embassy in Moscow Ramesh Chandra told Kommersant that “the Embassy was not aware” of the permission for re-export. See India Defence | India’s domain-b.

March 29/07: Pakistan’s The News International references an interview that Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed gves to Jane’s:

“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) aims to acquire 200-250 JF-17 Thunder (FC-1) fighter aircraft in place of the 150 originally envisaged, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed has said…. According to Jane’s Russian sources had initially said emphatically, that the RD-93 engines… could not be re-exported to Pakistan. This position was reversed in November 2006… during a joint [Klimov/ Chengdu] press briefing at the Zhuhai Air Show in China…. Pakistani sources claim they have a clear understanding from Chinese authorities that there will be no Russian effort to block the supply of the RD-93 engines to Pakistan. “The Chinese have told us the Russians haven’t issued a written licence but the Russians will not block the supply of the RD-93 to Pakistan,” one senior Pakistani government official told Jane’s.”

March 2/07: China delivers a pair of JF-17 fighters equipped with Russian-made RD-93 engines to Pakistan, prompting Indian protests that claim a violation of the end-user agreement between Russia and China. The aircraft were officially presented on March 12/07, and made their first public appearance during the Pakistan Day Parade on March 23/07. Scramble.

April 28/06: PT-04 makes its first flight with fully operational avionics. Source.

April 2004: Second prototype flies, though some sources contend that the aircraft in question was PT-03 instead. A total of 4 aircraft were manufactured for flight testing, while PT-05 was designed for static fatigue testing on the ground. APP | Wikipedia.

Aug 25/03: First prototype aircraft flies. Source.

July 1/03: First prototype completes first taxi trials. Source.

May 13/03: First prototype aircraft rolled out. Source.

September 2001: The FC-1/JF-17’s detailed design is finalized. Source.

1999: China and Pakistan agreed on 50-50 joint development of the FC-1/Super 7.

Additional Readings

Sino Defence – FC-1/JF-17 Multirole Fighter Aircraft
Wikipedia – JF-17 Thunder
GlobalSecurity – FC-1 “Chao Qi” / JF-17 Thunder. The Chinese name translates as “Fierce Dragon.”
GlobalSecurity – JF-17 Thunder
JF-17.com. Not an official site.
Klimov – RD-33 Family. Of which the RD-93 engine is one.
Jane’s – KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China), Airborne radar systems
Selex Galileo – Products: Radar and Sonics. The firm is a Finmeccanica subsidiary. While their material has said in the past that their Grifo radar family would equip the JF-17, that role now seems to have gone to the Chinese.
Sino Defence – PiLi-12 Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile
Sino Defence – PiLi-8 Short-Range Air-to-Air Missile
Sino Defence – LeiShi-6 Precision Guided Glide Bomb
Global Security – C-802 / YJ-2 / Ying Ji-802 / CSS-C-8 / SACCADE/ C-8xx / YJ-22 / YJ-82
Sino Defence – KongDi-88 (C-802KD) Air-Launched Land-Attack Cruise Missile. Developed from the YJ-82/C802 anti-ship missile.
DID – $5.1B Proposed in Sales, Upgrades, Weapons for Pakistan’s F-16s. The JF-17’s counterpart in the PAF. Current commitments are for 63 F-16 C/Ds, all at or near Block 52 standard.
 
China's First Master Designer


July 5, 2011:

After years of trying to keep it a secret, China has confirmed that one of their aircraft engineers, Yang Wei, is actually one of those extraordinary designers who produces one successful design after another. Born in 1963, he graduated from college at age 19 and finished graduate school three years later. He soon went to work at the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute, and a decade later was appointed director. So far, he has designed a working fly-by-wire system, as well as the JF-17, J-10B and J-20. He did not design the original J-10, but did design the most successful version, the J-10B, and provided important upgrades for other J-10 models. The new J-20 (a stealth design that is still in development) is less of a surprise now that it's known the Chinese have a genuine ace designer working on it.

Ace aircraft designers are rare, and those that do show up tend to create a number of exceptional designs during a few decades (or much less, if there's a war going on). For example, Russian designer Mikhail Simonov recently died (at age 81). He was responsible for the Su-24 bomber, the Su-25 ground attack plane and the Su-27 fighter. Starting during World War II, for example, one American designer (who was trained in Germany), Edgar Schmued, designed the P-51, followed by the F-86 and F-100 after the war. In Germany, Willie Messerschmitt designed the Me-109, Me-110 and the first jet fighter (Me-262) plus several others during World War II, and a few after the war.

In China, Yang Wei appears to be the first designer in this tradition. He had nothing to do with the original J-10, the first modern jet fighter designed and built in China. That appears to explain the many problems this aircraft has had. The J-10 was an attempt to create a modern fighter-bomber that could compete with foreign designs. The experiment was not completely successful. Work on the J-10 began over twenty years ago, in an attempt to develop an aircraft that would be comparable to the Russian MiG-29s and Su-27s, and the American F-16. But the first prototype did not fly until 1998. There were continued problems, and it wasn't until 2000 that the basic design flaws were fixed. By 2002, nine prototypes had been built, and flight testing was going forward to find, and fix, hundreds of smaller flaws. It was a great learning experience for Chinese engineers, but it was becoming apparent that the J-10 was not going to be competitive with the Su-27s/30s China was buying from Russia. The J-10 looks something like the American F-16, and weighs about the same (19 tons). Like the F-16, and unlike the Su-27, the J-10 has only one engine. Yang Wei improved the J-10 considerably with his J-10B version.

But it was the JF-17 (also known as FC-1) that made Yang Mei's reputation. The JF-17 was developed by China in cooperation with Pakistan, which originally only wanted to buy 150 of them. All this came about because Pakistan could not get modern fighters from anyone else, and turned to China. At the time, China had nothing comparable to the early model F-16s Pakistan already had. The 13 ton JF-17 is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F16 models. The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33. Originally, Pakistan wanted Western electronics in the JF-17, but because of the risk of Chinese technology theft, and pressure from the United States (who did not want China to steal more Western aviation electronics), the JF-17 uses Chinese and Pakistani electronics.

The JF-17 can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and uses radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers an hour, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of nearly 18,000 meters (55,000 feet). China has not yet decided on whether it will use the FC-1/JF-17 itself. This is apparently because China believes its own J-10 and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs. The J-10, like the JF-17, did not work out as well as was hoped, but that's another matter.

And then there the impressive new Chinese fighter, the J-20, which made its first flight earlier this year. While the J-20 looks like the American F-22 when viewed head on, it's overall shape, weight and engine power is closer to the American F-15C. In other words, it's about 20 meters (62 feet) long, with a wing span of 13.3 meters (42 feet). J-20 has about the same wing area as the F-15C, which is about 25 percent less than the F-22 (which is a few percent larger than the F-15 in terms of length and wingspan). Worse, for the J-20, is the fact that it's engine power is about the same as the F-15C, while the F-22 has 65 percent more power. With the afterburner turned on, the J-20 has more power than the F-15C, and nearly as much as the F-22. But because the afterburner consumes so much fuel, you can't use it more than a few minutes at a time. The F-22 is still one of only three aircraft (in service) that can supercruise (go faster than the speed of sound without using the afterburner.) In addition to the F-22, the Eurofighter and the Gripen can also supercruise.

The J-20 has some stealthiness when it's coming at you head on. But from any other aspect, the J-20 will light up the radar screen. For this reason, the J-20 is seen as a developmental aircraft, not the prototype of a new model headed for mass production. As such, it is only the fifth stealth fighter to fly, the others being the U.S. F-22 and F-35, plus the Russian T-50 and I.42. The older U.S. F-117 was actually a light bomber, and the B-2 was obviously a heavy bomber. Based on recent Chinese warplane development projects (J-10 in particular), the J-20 has a long development road ahead of it, and will likely change size and shape before it reaches the production design.

While the shape of the J-20 confers a degree of stealthiness (invisibility to radar), even more electronic invisibility comes from special materials covering the aircraft. It's not known how far along the Chinese are in creating, or stealing, these materials. Same with engines. The current J-20 engines are sufficient for early flight tests, but not capable of providing the supercruise, something that would be essential for the J-20. That's because China would most likely use the aircraft singly, or in small groups, to seek out and attack American carriers. As for F-22 class engines, that is being worked on. Two years ago, China announced it was developing the WS-15 engine, a more powerful beast well suited for the J-20. No date was given as to when the WS-15 would be available for use, or whether it would have the same vectoring (ability to move the hot jet exhaust in different directions in order to make the fighter more maneuverable) the F-22 uses.

For the J-20 to be a superior fighter, it would need electronics (including radars and defense systems) on a par with the F-35 and F-22. So far, the Chinese have not caught up with stuff used by current American fighters. But the gap is being closed faster than it was during the Cold War and the Russians were creating, or stealing, their way to military tech equivalence with the West.

Work on the J-20 began in the late 1990s, and the Chinese knew that it could be 25 years or more before they had a competitive stealth fighter-bomber. Development apparently moved a lot faster once Yang Wei got involved. The J-20 is being developed at the Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC), which builds the J-10 and JF-17. Located in central China, CAC was known to be working on the J-20, and Yang Wei is director of the design institute.

Yang Wei also appears to be a master at adapting stolen or licensed foreign technology to new designs. Both the FC-17 and J-20 are known to have used a lot of foreign technology. Just having access to that stuff does not guarantee success (as shown with the J-10). But if you are really good, as Yang Wei is, you can make the stolen tech into something as good, or better, than it was originally.

The J-20 is an attempt to develop some kind of 5th generation aircraft, complete with stealth. The only other competitor in this area is Russia, where fifth generation fighter developments were halted when the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991. Actually, all development work on new fighters, by everyone, slowed down in the 1990s. But work on the F-22, F-35, Eurofighter and Rafale continued, and those aircraft became, in roughly that order, the most advanced fighter aircraft available today. MiG resumed work on the I.42 in the 1990s, but had to stop after a few years because of a lack of money. Sukhoi has never stopped working on its T-50, funded by much higher sales of its Su-27/30 fighters. This fifth generation may come to be called the "last generation," after they are replaced by the second generation of pilotless combat aircraft (counting armed Predators and the like as the first). It's not known if Yang Wei is working on combat UAVs.
 
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nabil-
''Allow me to step in, the reason for going for additional f-16s was solely because PAF has decades of experience and considers them as an ideal multirole fighter that suits PAF combat style. Remember, JFT is a MAINSTAY fighter and f-16 is designated as a FRONT LINE fighter in PAF till the FC-20 comes in. There is a reason we didn't go for a huge chunk of blk 52s as a superior capability will come in a few years time in shape of fc-20 but the importance of f-16 will not be negated even then. Old f016s are being updated as the blk 15 is near obsolete and needed a new lease of life in shape of MLU-3 upgrades and so it gets and remains a viable threat to the adversary even after 30 years of its induction.

Regarding rd-93, it has proved to be a capable and versatile engine for JFT and so far PAF is happy with its very quick response time and fuel efficiency as well as appropriate thrust. The notion of it being under power is curtailed after Zhuhai performance but there is always a second option in shape of ws-13 which is being tested in China as of now, has higher thrust, better FADEC control but slower response time than rd-93. ''
 

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