JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Luftwaffe]

Bottomline F-7/J-7 marketing and manufacturing must stop!. Chengdu must focus FC-1 and leave primitive F-7.

 

[Tempest II]

and the export version will be called FC-1 with 100% chinese OE.

While its true that the name and version “JF-17” is specific to PAF, FC-1 will be the general designation of other variants. However, FC-1 is not necessarily 100% Chinese. Sub-systems from other countries are on offer and the most obvious two are the Italian radar option and the RD-93 engine. The engine which as we know has been cleared for re-export to at least 5 other countries.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

No one answered my question??? Have PAF started JF-17 Block II production and what are the upgrades????

 

[niaz]

come on...
we modified a ship launched attacked version of harpoon and made it more dangerous...
Harpoon is basically a ship launched anti-ship missile....
here are it's varients..
Fixed-wing aircraft (the
AGM-84 , without the solid-
fuel rocket booster)
Surface ships (the
RGM-84 , fitted with a solid-
fuel rocket booster that
detaches when expended, to
allow the missile's main
turbojet to maintain flight)
Submarines (the UGM-84 ,
fitted with a solid-fuel rocket
booster and encapsulated in
a container to enable
submerged launch through a
torpedo tube);
Coastal defense batteries,
from which it would be fired
with a solid-fuel rocket
booster.
Pakistan have both air launcher version and ship launcher version..
Pakistan modified ship launched defensive harpoon and converted it into offensive attach varient....

You can’t make a weapon such as Harpoon missile ‘more dangerous’. Its destructive power is determined by its 500 lb. explosive load. Only thing that can be improved is the guidance system and the launch platform. Pakistan despite being in possession of many Harpoon Missile, for a number of years, is not in a position to reverse engineer the missile itself. Don’t think this in the realm of capabilities of even China or India.

Here is the an excerpt from ‘Boeing Harpoon site’

“ Boeing and the U.S. Navy marked the 40th anniversary of the Harpoon Missile System in June 2011. Boeing has delivered more than 7,300 Harpoon and Harpoon Block II missiles for the U.S. Navy and more than 30 international military customers since the inaugural Harpoon contract was awarded by Naval Air Systems Command on June 21, 1971. More than 600 ships, 180 submarines, 12 different types of aircraft, and several land-based launch vehicles carry Harpoon missiles. Nearly 300 Boeing team members develop, build, maintain and provide operational support for Harpoon at the St. Charles facility, which opened in July 1979.”

There isn’t too much difference between launching from a ship or from a land based installation. Without underplaying Pakistani scientist’s achievement, one must understand that land launched versions already existed, therefore making a land based launch vehicle, though commendable effort, does not call for jumping with joy.

Additionally, normally a defensive weapon is something anti-aircraft or anti – missile system. Harpoon was always an offensive weapon.

 

[Manticore]

Pakistan is the most likely source of submarine-launched Harpoon technology that was transferred to China. The two nations were drawing closer to each other diplomatically and militarily due to their mutual concern over India, and the Pakistani Navy’s Agosta and Daphne class submarines had been modified to launch Sub-Harpoon missiles between 1984 and 1986. An additional motivating factor was China’s considerable technical assistance to Pakistan’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs. A quid pro quo arrangement for Chinese engineers to exam and/or dissect a Sub-Harpoon missile would not have been an outrageous request.

Western reporting put the first test firing of a YJ-82 in 1997 from the lead Song (Type 039) class submarine. Limited information suggests the initial flight tests didn’t go wellIt wasn’t until 2004, at the Zhuhai Airshow China exposition, that the first photo of a model YJ-82 was seen in a CPMIEC brochure. The photo showed a YJ-8 type missile, without a booster, in an unpowered capsule that is an almost exact duplicate of the U.S. Sub-Harpoon system

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-warfare/99878-standoff-missiles-7.html#ixzz2M06bCoeq

sir, I had posted some articles I had found, here with links @niaz

 

[niaz]

Hi,

The problem of JF-17 for export markets is two fold.

First, it's about the assembly line. China doesn't have one for large production, and PAC is already full.

Second, JF-17's engine is RD93/33 from Russia. It took considerable effort from both, Pakistan AND China to negotiate the engines from Russia. What is the guarantee that the next export customer, say Egypt can do the same? Plus in recent times China has come under criticism from Russia for copying their fighters and thus taking over export market.

I believe as long as RD93 powers JF-17, export is still a distant goal.

Unfortunately making aircraft engines is even more difficult than designing aircraft. Only US, Russia, UK & France have the expertise to design and build state of the art aero engines. It will be quite some time before China can make engines of the same thrust, quality & reliability.

Indian LCA- Tejas design was finalised way back in the 1990. The delay has been primarily due to lack of a decent power plant. US built F404 was finally installed in the aircraft in 2011, a delay of 21 years?

Thus dependence on a foreign power plant is something one has to live with.

 

[Gentelman]

You can’t make a weapon such as Harpoon missile ‘more dangerous’. Its destructive power is determined by its 500 lb. explosive load. Only thing that can be improved is the guidance system and the launch platform. Pakistan despite being in possession of many Harpoon Missile, for a number of years, is not in a position to reverse engineer the missile itself. Don’t think this in the realm of capabilities of even China or India.

Here is the an excerpt from ‘Boeing Harpoon site’

“ Boeing and the U.S. Navy marked the 40th anniversary of the Harpoon Missile System in June 2011. Boeing has delivered more than 7,300 Harpoon and Harpoon Block II missiles for the U.S. Navy and more than 30 international military customers since the inaugural Harpoon contract was awarded by Naval Air Systems Command on June 21, 1971. More than 600 ships, 180 submarines, 12 different types of aircraft, and several land-based launch vehicles carry Harpoon missiles. Nearly 300 Boeing team members develop, build, maintain and provide operational support for Harpoon at the St. Charles facility, which opened in July 1979.”

There isn’t too much difference between launching from a ship or from a land based installation. Without underplaying Pakistani scientist’s achievement, one must understand that land launched versions already existed, therefore making a land based launch vehicle, though commendable effort, does not call for jumping with joy.

Additionally, normally a defensive weapon is something anti-aircraft or anti – missile system. Harpoon was always an offensive weapon.

Pakistan increased it's range probably.....
Pakistanis have just ship launched Harpoons and not Land based Harpoons...
well i took it from Indian media about harpoon upgrade...
my mistake...
well americans showed concern over that upgrade and blammed pakistan...

 

[Tempest II]

No one answered my question??? Have PAF started JF-17 Block II production and what are the upgrades????

Despite Missile Integration, Nuke Role Unlikely for Pakistan’s JF-17 | Defense News | defensenews.com

Feb. 7, 2013 - 06:35PM | By Usman Ansari

Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood at the JF-17 Project Management Office said integration work was ongoing with Chinese and Pakistani weapons, and that “most weapons have been integrated”.

“Ra’ad and the H-4 [glide bomb] will be for the Block I and Block II” aircraft currently in or about to enter service, not just the forthcoming Block III variant, he said.

From the above: Block 1 is in service. Block 2 is about to enter service. And Block three is the next. ... ... Suggest Block 1 production is finished. ... .... Unfotunately "about to enter" does not give us much feel of time for block two.

 

[SQ8]

No one answered my question??? Have PAF started JF-17 Block II production and what are the upgrades????

Learn to read through the forum instead of making post for the heck of it.
If you are that interested then get off your bum and look back on threads.
use something invented for the internet called the search function.

 

[niaz]

Pakistan increased it's range probably.....
Pakistanis have just ship launched Harpoons and not Land based Harpoons...
well i took it from Indian media about harpoon upgrade...
my mistake...
well americans showed concern over that upgrade and blammed pakistan...

Apparently US did provide Pakistan with land based version of Harpoon-II as given in a report in this form.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/368-upgraded-harpoons-sidewinders-pakistan.html

This drama started with a NY Times report in August 2009 which may or may not have been true and written with malafide intentions probably financed by the Indian lobby to stop sale of military equipment to Pakistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/world/asia/30missile.html?_r=0

The missiles supposed to have been modified were given to Pakistan in the 1980’s by the Reagan Administration! Thus total junk by today’s standards. Pakistan has always denied the allegation and said theirs is a new indigenous missile.

A more balanced view is:

Pakistan's Threat Perceptions | Center for Strategic and International Studies

 

[Tempest II]

... ... what are the upgrades????

translated from here

http://i.imgur.com/Q7vCU.jpg

 

[muse]

JFT II production has started ??? What are the upgrades ????

Sir the answer is that we do not know and that anything we can offer is merely guess work - so a little patience

 

[SQ8]

Sir the answer is that we do not know and that anything we can offer is merely guess work - so a little patience

Patience.. and humility.
The user has not bothered to go through the JFT information pool.. nor the threads for the relevant information.

 

[Manticore]

JF-17 for PAF are going to be in 3 colors , dark grey, light grey and the last will be a mixture of brown and lightbrown.

an old post by sir muradk... wonder if paf changes the colors or not

 

[fatman17]

an old post by sir muradk... wonder if paf changes the colors or not

so far all in grey color scheme.