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Lies, statistics and military lies

Neptune

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It is never unusual that “Turkish affairs” often make one smile. It can be a news story, or just a headline. Recently, one such headline in the English-language Turkish press read: “Turkey [is] Africa’s strategic partner, says Turkey’s EU Minister.” A Turkish minister for Africa may not be too remote or senseless, especially if the honorable minister makes speeches in praise of Turkey’s EU accession.

A more recent favorite was the relieving words of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu who, briefly, spoke like the defense minister – but that, too, should be normal in a country where anomaly is the new normal. “This nation,” Minister Davutoğlu said, “will from now on never need [the services of] other countries in ensuring its [national] defense.”

As a matter of fact, Mr. Davutoğlu spoke like a defense minister because the merry event about which he was speaking was defense-related. But what was the event that inspired Mr. Davutoğlu to think that Turkey would, from now on, never need the services of foreign nations to ensure its defenses?

After several years of delays, an American company, Boeing, had eventually delivered the first of a batch of four spy planes (more accurately known as airborne early warning and control aircraft) that it built for the Turkish Air Force – “American,” unless, of course, the Turks had not discreetly acquired the company.

Speaking at an inauguration ceremony for the belated delivery of the first Turkish spy plane, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said the following: “We [Turkey] have started the production of attack helicopters. And today we also took a $3.5 billion [worth] step on utility helicopters [for the army].” A $3.5 billion step! But with which Turkish company had that $3.5 billion contract been signed?

Well, according to the contract, the signatory’s name is Sikorsky Aircraft. This must be another Turkish defense giant disguised as an American helicopter-maker, like Agusta-Westland, maker of the T-129, the Turkish attack helicopter that Mr. Erdoğan mentioned, which hides itself under a fake Italian-British corporate identity.

In his shiny inauguration speech, Mr. Erdoğan revealed something else: “Our navy is now outfitted mostly by national [Turkish-made] warships.” Is it? But of course, if you applied the Boeing/Sikorsky/Agusta-Westland criteria.

The Turkish Navy’s warship inventory consists of eight “Gabya-class” frigates, all U.S.-made. The Navy also has four “Barbaros-class” frigates two of which were built in Hamburg and the other two in Turkey under German license. Two of the four “Yavuz-class” frigates were built in Hamburg and Kiel and the other two, again, were built (read: assembled) in Turkey under German license.

The Navy has two corvettes built in Turkey and six built in France. It also has six submarines built in Germany; eight built in Turkey under German license and six more coming, under German license too. The Navy’s aerial support (reconnaissance and surveillance) assets include maritime patrol aircraft, built in Italy, Spain and France; and maritime helicopters built in Italy and the United States.

That’s all about “a navy outfitted mostly by national warships.” But then why is Turkey on an ambitious road to build its national fighter jet? If building a military platform under license from its foreign maker is sufficient to make it “national,” someone should remind the prime minister that Turkey has a modest history of “building” (assembling) scores of the U.S.-made F-16 fighters. Why should the F-16s built in Turkey not count as “national,” when warships do? Is that not unfair to warplanes?

It would be even more amusing if the part-time defense minister, Mr. Davutoğlu, explained why “this nation, from now on, will never need [the services of] other countries in ensuring its [national] defense” just because Turkey, at that moment, had received the first of a batch of expensive aircraft designed and built in the United States. Is every U.S. delivery of weaponry reducing Turkey’s dependency on foreign weapons manufacturers?

Lies, statistics and military lies. The sky is the limit.


Lies, statistics and military lies - BURAK BEKDİL
 
Alot of things are exagerated. They are built in turkey but they are not turkish such as the f 16's. Alot of what is assembled in turkey has turkish sub systems but that doesn't matter that much in the short term because you are still dependent on foreigners for important parts. But turkey has started designing its own weapon systems, and various other logistical, intel etc. systems. All the negatives will disappear in time thanks to our engineers. Right now we are on the right course. The countries that supply us weapons didn't start from 0 they copied others and were dependent on them such as the united states but eventually they became independent.
 
Alot of things are exagerated. They are built in turkey but they are not turkish such as the f 16's. Alot of what is assembled in turkey has turkish sub systems but that doesn't matter that much in the short term because you are still dependent on foreigners for important parts. But turkey has started designing its own weapon systems, and various other logistical, intel etc. systems. All the negatives will disappear in time thanks to our engineers. Right now we are on the right course. The countries that supply us weapons didn't start from 0 they copied others and were dependent on them such as the united states but eventually they became independent.

i agree and want to add that we shouldn't care so much about others calling our products a copy or clone whatever. we have come to the point where many nations are developing military equipment and systems, it makes sense that lots of stuff will eventually look like a clone of an older equipment or system.

actually our officials shouldnt go running around that Turkey is already self-sufficient while we are not. it only tarnishes our reputation and will lead to such articles from BB (though the man gotta earn money and eat too :))
 
Well, our politicians do have to boast about something too. As far as they are concerned, telling the public that this and that are domestically produced since they came to power buys more votes than saying that something is produced under license...
 
@Neptune

What you think about the Turkish Defense Industry & Future Developments and Projects ? What about them is National or will be useful ? How much have created Turkish Engineering ? Are they Capable to built something without adding a small Part and call it then Turkish ?
 
@Neptune

What you think about the Turkish Defense Industry & Future Developments and Projects ? What about them is National or will be useful ? How much have created Turkish Engineering ? Are they Capable to built something without adding a small Part and call it then Turkish ?

i'm busy now, will reply to you tonight man.
 
@Neptune

What you think about the Turkish Defense Industry & Future Developments and Projects ?

Well, I believe that we're doing quite good, especially considering the crisises occured such as 17th December, Gezi Protests, Sledhammer case...etc. Exports are increasing with a stable rate. Currently as the MoND said a couple weeks ago, 60% of TAF is being supplied by Turkish products all up to NATO standards. I believe that at 2025 we'll be at Top 5 in defence industry. It'll also put our army to top 5 I believe.

What about them is National or will be useful ? How much have created Turkish Engineering ?

Turkish engineering at shipbuilding is well known by World as it put as at top 4 shipbuilders. But I'm afraid I can't say the same for defence&military. Not because of their capabilities for sure. The government does not spend enough money on R&D, but they're increasing it. Besides that engineers at TAI, Aselsan...they rock!

Are they Capable to built something without adding a small Part and call it then Turkish ?

Of course they are. And they do. For example Aselsan Kaplan Unmanned Ground Vechile. US first bought a couple of them and used them in Afghanistan among with their Talons, laterly they bought the ToT of them. At mid-2013, Kaplan became a NATO product*.

*an approval given to allied weapons which they think might be very high to standards and benefitical for NATO's use. (ex: Sea Sparrow missile and LAMPS are also NATO products.
 

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