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Motivations behind selecting the name 'India' in 1947

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I got about as far as here, and it looks to be mostly incorrect. I think the reference Sparte80 is referring to are the ones from the Mahabarata (whether they're a historically inaccurate story or not is irrelevant, it is a sacred text)

Mahabharata, Book 8, Chapter 44
Karna rebukes Shalya, who belong to a non-Vedic tribe named Madra, belonging to the category of Aratta-Vahikas

How can one go to heaven, having drunk milk in the town called Yugandhara, and resided in the place called Acyutasthala, and bathed in the spot called Bhutilaya? There (Punjab) where the five rivers flow just after issuing from the mountains, there among the Aratta-Vahikas, no respectable person should dwell even for two days. There are two Pishacas named Vahi and Hika in the river Vipasa. The Vahikas are the offspring of those two Pishacas.

The regions are called by the name of Arattas. The people residing there are called the Vahikas. The lowest of brahmanas also are residing there from very remote times. They are without the Veda and without knowledge, without sacrifice and without the power to assist at other’s sacrifices. The Prasthalas, the Madras, the Gandharas, the Arattas, those called Khasas, the Vasatis, the Sindhus and the Sauviras are almost as blamable in their practices


Mahisha Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is basically all of Pakistan.

It only proves when the passage was composed, Vahikas practise no more was considered to be best practise. They were considered Brahmins nevertheless, but cultural/religious focus shifted to Ganjetic plane.


This particular reference was made in the Puranas, stating that the best practices were no longer to be found in the Punjab and its surroundings. The reference was made at a time when the language and culture of the incoming Aryans had gone deep into the Gangetic plain and was still moving east.

We can make sense of it only by postulating that the Indian branch of the Indo-Iranian speaking wanderers on the Central Asian steppes came to the Punjab earlier than to the Gangetic plains, that they were moving in an easterly, perhaps even a south-easterly direction. As the borders of this culture spread, its older habitations were increasingly considered inauspicious, its inhabitants came to be seen as outside the pale.
 
It only proves when the passage was composed, Vahikas practise no more was considered to be best practise. They were considered Brahmins nevertheless, but cultural/religious focus shifted to Ganjetic plane.

The lowest of the Brahmins might have been residing among the Vahikas, but the Vahikas were not considered Brahmins. It's fairly clear. No respectable person would mean any devout Hindu (excluding Shudras) should dwell there. So it pretty much confirms what Sparten80 suggested. Saying it was no longer considered "best practise" is trying to downplay it. It's quite clear that no respectable person should even live in that place. That is a bit more than "best practise".
 
Sir (Roadrunner),

I just wana Salute
tup.gif
you on your thorough knowledge of our ancient history. Actually, we belong to great Indian Civilization and the people beyond sandy lands(Today's Bharat) are just lame Paindos, Great.
 
The lowest of the Brahmins might have been residing among the Vahikas, but the Vahikas were not considered Brahmins. It's fairly clear. No respectable person would mean any devout Hindu (excluding Shudras) should dwell there. So it pretty much confirms what Sparten80 suggested. Saying it was no longer considered "best practise" is trying to downplay it. It's quite clear that no respectable person should even live in that place. That is a bit more than "best practise".

The ancients said, no doubt when faced with a situation like this,

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing,
Drink deep or drink not of the Peirian spring."

Even an eight-year old familiar with the Mahabharata, and not coming to it from Wikipedia, of all things, would catch the obvious howler in the passage quoted from the Mahabharata.

To find out why everyone who has read the Mahabharata is laughing at such a display of high scholarship, look up (in the Mahabharata, preferably, of which there are many good English translations, otherwise in Wikipedia, since it seems to agree so well) Madri daughter of the Madras (and incidentally sister to Shalya), and Gandhari daughter of the Gandharas.

Is it possible that Karna, born to a Suta, would have dared to speak so slightingly about the homeland of two of the most powerful royal women, one of them the Queen herself, and mother of his patron Duryodhana, the other the sister of the man standing in front of him? And are we even considering the role of the brother of Gandhari, the prince Shakuni, in the events that took place? Or would the royal family of the Kurus, the highest in the land, have accepted princesses from debased regions, as this nincompoop, a muscle-brained, fighting machine, is made to call them?

This is a late era interpolation, one of thousands that have been detected, and highlights the constant tussle for one set of Brahmins to discredit and take over the positions of others, earlier dominant.

Read the stilted language; this is no proud Aryan warrior speaking.

This was purportedly part of a battle-field squabble about precedence between the two Kings, one, Shalya, genuinely head of his ancient and noble family, the other, Karna, a fighting genius, but not from the nobility, supposedly the son of a charioteer, elevated above the heads of all by his patron Duryodhana to bind him to Duryodhana's cause for all time. And what do we get? An angry warrior asserting his equality to a noble of an ancient house? No, a quibbler droning on about the respective merits and demerits of a dhobi-list of kingdoms, some hardly heard of, obscure places of no relevance, the others among the greatest seats of power in the times in which the epic took place, rapidly losing importance in later centuries.

Even through their being inserted in the mouth of such a person, the didactic, dry-as-dust words from an anthropology-mixed-with-theology lecture that have been put in, should sound a warning: it was not an original part of the great epic poem, it was an interpolation, one of thousands detected by the very late Sanskrit used, which stands out from the rhythm and vigour of the original verses like sore thumbs.

For your further information, just to figure out what was going on, and whose interests were being served, these words so gullibly quoted were put in the mouth of the King of Anga, now approximately Bihar, but east of Magadha.

For all those who evidently fail to 'get' it, and depend on Wikipedia for their brilliant flashes of insight, Anga (and Vanga, ancient Bengal) were forbidden lands at the time of the later Vedas (Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda), at which time the incoming tribes were still grouped around the north-west, still fighting hard to survive and to find their feet; although finding mention in these later Vedas (not in the earlier), these deep eastern lands were lands "without caste". Nobody east of Gaya was considered, at one time, at the time of Baudhayan*, for instance, a very late-age commentator writing in his Dharma Sutra, to be a twice-borne Hindu, except for a handful of Brahmins, grudgingly accepted.

Four hundred years later, when the first recensions of the sung epic, the Mahabharata, were sought to be standardised, things had changed radically. By the 4th century BC, the centre of power was with the Janapadas, sixteen of them, hundreds of miles east of the bridgeheads established by the steppe-dwellers when they came to India through the passes, bridgeheads no longer held in honour but in contempt and suspicion.

Power was no longer with the old patriarchal tribes that were described by the Mahabharata, that belonged to an age long left behind. The centre of power was now Magadha; a mere hundred years later, Alexander broke into the Punjab, but couldn't motivate his last remaining Greek soldiers to cross the river to attack the Magadhan empire of the Nandas.

This was the revenge of some intriguer from the east on the previously eminent Punjabis. Wait a minute: what was that again? Ironic: as the Bengali proverb goes, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." We've seen this one before.

I really wish that these epics could be treated with some respect. Those who haven't even read it should stay away and not try their hand at making up history and anthropology.

* This is not Baudhayan the mathematician, before some more aspiring geniuses rush to the Internet to fill in the holes in their knowledge. The mathematician wrote a Sulba Sutra, which forms part of the Srauta Sutras, written jointly by some of the oldest mathematicians - correctly speaking, geometricians. Either he, or his namesake, wrote the Dharmasutra, which is what is being referred to here.

His dates are contemporary with the Yajur Veda, about 800 BC. The Mahabharata, according to conservative scholars, was sung and recited earlier, but was compiled only around the 4th century BC, and frozen by the late Gupta era, the 4th century AD. And that, to cite a somewhat more familiar filmic rather than epic authority, is all I have to say about that.
 
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Sir (Roadrunner),

I just wana Salute
tup.gif
you on your thorough knowledge of our ancient history. Actually, we belong to great Indian Civilization and the people beyond sandy lands(Today's Bharat) are just lame Paindos, Great.

Not Indian, Not great, simply Indus civilization.
British India was the name given by English, in reference to Indus civilization. Adopted the ancient civilization.
After partition only word British was annexed but India was kept... keeping the iconic reference to Indus civilization.
Ironically, the land of civilization fell in geography of Pakistan.

Before Mughals, those were many tiny states world apart.
 
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@RR & BTMN

IVC is a dravidian in origin and guess what Dravidians are there in INDIA i.e South INDIA

This makes India a nation which is exclusively a continuation of IVC .
whts there so hard to understand,Native Americans wer called Indian becos columbus thought tht he reached Indian land everybody knows this, and If greeks didnt discovered India 2000yrs before than tht doesnt mean India didnt exist LOlz ,i donno how cud u say tht???,anyways the findings in arabian coast says tht Ancient Egypt had trade relations with Ancient India(modern India comes to tht) like 3000yrs ago and this trade route is known as Spice sea route.
So Ancient Indians Discovered Ancient Egypt ever before the existence of Ancient Greeks .and there are The civilizations which are said tobe oldest civilisation are tie between Sumerain,Indian and Egyptian therefore u cant 100% rely on greeks discovery cos tht discovery happened many many millenia after the existence of Ancient Civilisations of India,Egypt and Sumerians.hence Greeks discoveries and ancient texts are merely a guidelines coz greek civilisation itself is not older than Egyptian or Indian or Sumerian therefore when u say India wasnt discovered by greeks like 2000yrs before tht doesnt mean India didnt exist 2000 yrs before. and the new findings like Ancient Puratan Town "dwaraka" under the sea coastal of gujarat,& ancient Town of Krshna in tamil nadu coast which is again is under the sea such findings says tht these cud b 10000yrs old towns which makes it 5000yrs older than " IVC " tht makes IVC was just a very very small part of Rich Ancient Indian Civilisation Which was in Main Land of India .

India is a continuation of 10000+ yrs old Ancient India.


Pakistan is just a Indian land given to muslim league when jinnah asked for the Indian land for muslim league frm Nehru ,If gandhi and nehru migth hav refused than there wud be no pakistan at all cos muslim leagues ministers nvr won any of the elections against congress ministers in any part of the Indian Subcontinent. history also says tht even extremist Islamic regions like Paktooni regions there also congress won the election.
source:Nejam Sethi's video on pakistan's distorted history

in one of those videos he also said tht muslim leagues number one objective was "Hum British ke Wafadaar" lolz nobody can doubt it cuz if we read the history of political pakistan we can understand tht how u guys wer working for the Anglo-american interest in Asia and south Asia
hence in my understanding Nation of PAKISTAN is more like far eastern provinces of british empire(which is inherited as Anglo-American Empire) ...NO offence
 
The ancients said, no doubt when faced with a situation like this,

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing,
Drink deep or drink not of the Peirian spring."

Even an eight-year old familiar with the Mahabharata, and not coming to it from Wikipedia, of all things, would catch the obvious howler in the passage quoted from the Mahabharata.

To find out why everyone who has read the Mahabharata is laughing at such a display of high scholarship, look up (in the Mahabharata, preferably, of which there are many good English translations, otherwise in Wikipedia, since it seems to agree so well) Madri daughter of the Madras (and incidentally sister to Shalya), and Gandhari daughter of the Gandharas.

Is it possible that Karna, born to a Suta, would have dared to speak so slightingly about the homeland of two of the most powerful royal women, one of them the Queen herself, and mother of his patron Duryodhana, the other the sister of the man standing in front of him? And are we even considering the role of the brother of Gandhari, the prince Shakuni, in the events that took place? Or would the royal family of the Kurus, the highest in the land, have accepted princesses from debased regions, as this nincompoop, a muscle-brained, fighting machine, is made to call them?

This is a late era interpolation, one of thousands that have been detected, and highlights the constant tussle for one set of Brahmins to discredit and take over the positions of others, earlier dominant.

Read the stilted language; this is no proud Aryan warrior speaking.

This was purportedly part of a battle-field squabble about precedence between the two Kings, one, Shalya, genuinely head of his ancient and noble family, the other, Karna, a fighting genius, but not from the nobility, supposedly the son of a charioteer, elevated above the heads of all by his patron Duryodhana to bind him to Duryodhana's cause for all time. And what do we get? An angry warrior asserting his equality to a noble of an ancient house? No, a quibbler droning on about the respective merits and demerits of a dhobi-list of kingdoms, some hardly heard of, obscure places of no relevance, the others among the greatest seats of power in the times in which the epic took place, rapidly losing importance in later centuries.

Even through their being inserted in the mouth of such a person, the didactic, dry-as-dust words from an anthropology-mixed-with-theology lecture that have been put in, should sound a warning: it was not an original part of the great epic poem, it was an interpolation, one of thousands detected by the very late Sanskrit used, which stands out from the rhythm and vigour of the original verses like sore thumbs.

For your further information, just to figure out what was going on, and whose interests were being served, these words so gullibly quoted were put in the mouth of the King of Anga, now approximately Bihar, but east of Magadha.

For all those who evidently fail to 'get' it, and depend on Wikipedia for their brilliant flashes of insight, Anga (and Vanga, ancient Bengal) were forbidden lands at the time of the later Vedas (Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda), at which time the incoming tribes were still grouped around the north-west, still fighting hard to survive and to find their feet; although finding mention in these later Vedas (not in the earlier), these deep eastern lands were lands "without caste". Nobody east of Gaya was considered, at one time, at the time of Baudhayan*, for instance, a very late-age commentator writing in his Dharma Sutra, to be a twice-borne Hindu, except for a handful of Brahmins, grudgingly accepted.

Four hundred years later, when the first recensions of the sung epic, the Mahabharata, were sought to be standardised, things had changed radically. By the 4th century BC, the centre of power was with the Janapadas, sixteen of them, hundreds of miles east of the bridgeheads established by the steppe-dwellers when they came to India through the passes, bridgeheads no longer held in honour but in contempt and suspicion.

Power was no longer with the old patriarchal tribes that were described by the Mahabharata, that belonged to an age long left behind. The centre of power was now Magadha; a mere hundred years later, Alexander broke into the Punjab, but couldn't motivate his last remaining Greek soldiers to cross the river to attack the Magadhan empire of the Nandas.

This was the revenge of some intriguer from the east on the previously eminent Punjabis. Wait a minute: what was that again? Ironic: as the Bengali proverb goes, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." We've seen this one before.

I really wish that these epics could be treated with some respect. Those who haven't even read it should stay away and not try their hand at making up history and anthropology.

* This is not Baudhayan the mathematician, before some more aspiring geniuses rush to the Internet to fill in the holes in their knowledge. The mathematician wrote a Sulba Sutra, which forms part of the Srauta Sutras, written jointly by some of the oldest mathematicians - correctly speaking, geometricians. Either he, or his namesake, wrote the Dharmasutra, which is what is being referred to here.

His dates are contemporary with the Yajur Veda, about 800 BC. The Mahabharata, according to conservative scholars, was sung and recited earlier, but was compiled only around the 4th century BC, and frozen by the late Gupta era, the 4th century AD. And that, to cite a somewhat more familiar filmic rather than epic authority, is all I have to say about that.

You don't need to believe wiki. You can read the official version which is even more offensive than the wiki version.

"'Shalya said, "These, O Karna, are ravings that thou utterest regarding the foe. As regards myself without a 1,000 Karnas I am able to vanquish the foe in battle.'"

"Sanjaya continued, 'Unto the ruler of Madras, of harsh features, who was saying such disagreeable things unto Karna, the latter once more said words that were twice bitter.

"'Karna said, "Listen with devoted attention to this, O ruler of the Madras, that was heard by me while it was recited in the presence of Dhritarashtra. In Dhritarashtra's abode the brahmanas used to narrate the accounts of diverse delightful regions and many kings of ancient times. A foremost one among brahmanas, venerable in years while reciting old histories, said these words, blaming the Vahikas and Madrakas, 'One should always avoid the Vahikas, those impure people that are out of the pale of virtue, and that live away from the Himavat and the Ganga and Sarasvati and Yamuna and Kurukshetra and the Sindhu and its five tributary rivers. I remember from the days of my youth that a slaughter-ground for kine and a space for storing intoxicating spirits always distinguish the entrances of the abodes of the (Vahika) kings. On some very secret mission I had to live among the Vahikas. In consequence of such residence the conduct of these people is well known to me. There is a town of the name of Sakala, a river of the name of Apaga, and a clan of the Vahikas known by the name of the Jarttikas. The practices of these people are very censurable. They drink the liquor called Gauda, and eat fried barley with it. They also eat beef with garlic. They also eat cakes of flour mixed with meat, and boiled rice that is bought from others. Of righteous practices they have none. Their women, intoxicated with drink and divested of robes, laugh and dance outside the walls of the houses in cities, without garlands and unguents, singing while drunk obscene songs of diverse kinds that are as musical as the bray of the *** or the bleat of the camel. In intercourse they are absolutely without any restraint, and in all other matters they act as they like. Maddened with drink, they call upon one another, using many endearing epithets. Addressing many drunken exclamations to their husbands and lords, the fallen women among the Vahikas, without observing restrictions even on sacred days, give themselves up to dancing. One of those wicked Vahikas,--one that is, that lived amongst those arrogant women,--who happened to live for some days in Kurujangala, burst out with cheerless heart, saying, "Alas, that (Vahika) maiden of large proportions, dressed in thin blankets, is thinking of me,--her Vahika lover--that is now passing his days in Kurujangala, at the hour of her going to bed." Crossing the Sutlej and the delightful Iravati, and arriving at my own country, when shall I cast my eyes upon those beautiful women with thick frontal bones, with blazing circlets of red arsenic on their foreheads, with streaks of jet black collyrium on their eyes, and their beautiful forms attired in blankets and skins and themselves uttering shrill cries! When shall I be happy, in the company of those intoxicated ladies amid the music of drums and kettle-drums and conchs sweet as the cries of ***** and camels and mules! When shall I be amongst those ladies eating cakes of flour and meat and balls of pounded barley mixed with skimmed milk, in the forests, having many pleasant paths of Sami and Pilu and Karira! When shall I, amid my own countrymen, mustering in strength on the high-roads, fall upon passengers, and snatching their robes and attires beat them repeatedly! What man is there that would willingly dwell, even for a moment amongst the Vahikas that are so fallen and wicked, and so depraved in their practises?' Even thus did that brahmana describe the Vahikas of base behaviour, a sixth of whose merits and demerits is thine, O Shalya. Having said this, that pious brahmana began once more to say what I am about to repeat respecting the wicked Vahikas. Listen to what I say, 'In the large and populous town of Sakala, a Rakshasa woman used to sing on every fourteenth day of the dark fortnight, in accompaniment with a drum, "When shall I next sing the songs of the Vahikas in this Sakala town, having gorged myself with beef and drunk the Gauda liquor? When shall I again, decked in ornaments, and with those maidens and ladies of large proportions, gorge upon a large number of sheep and large quantities of pork and beef and the meat of fowls and ***** and camels? They who do not eat sheep live in vain!"' Even thus, O Shalya, the young and old, among the inhabitants of Sakala, intoxicated with spirits, sing and cry. How can virtue be met with among such a people? Thou shouldst know this. I must, however, speak again to thee about what another brahmana had said unto us in the Kuru court, 'There where forests of Pilus stand, and those five rivers flow, viz., the Satadru, the Vipasa, the Iravati, the Candrabhaga, and the Vitasa and which have the Sindhu for their sixth, there in those regions removed from the Himavat, are the countries called by the name of the Arattas. Those regions are without virtue and religion. No one should go thither. The gods, the pitris, and the brahmanas, never accept gifts from those that are fallen, or those that are begotten by Shudras on the girls of other castes, or the Vahikas who never perform sacrifices and are exceedingly irreligious.' That learned brahmana had also said in the Kuru court, 'The Vahikas, without any feelings of revulsion, eat of wooden vessels having deep stomachs and earthen plates and vessels that have been licked by dogs and that are stained with pounded barley and other corn. The Vahikas drink the milk of sheep and camels and ***** and eat curds and other preparations from those different kinds of milk. Those degraded people number many bastards among them. There is no food and no milk that they do not take. The Aratta-Vahikas that are steeped in ignorance, should be avoided.' Thou shouldst know this, O Shalya. I must, however, again speak to thee about what another brahmana had said unto me in the Kuru court, 'How can one go to heaven, having drunk milk in the town called Yugandhara, and resided in the place called Acyutasthala, and bathed in the spot called Bhutilaya? There where the five rivers flow just after issuing from the mountains, there among the Aratta-Vahikas, no respectable person should dwell even for two days. There are two Pishacas named Vahi and Hika in the river Vipasa. The Vahikas are the offspring of those two Pishacas. They are not creatures created by the Creator. Being of such low origin, how can they be conversant with the duties ordained in the scriptures? The Karashakas, the Mahishakas, the Kalingas, the Keralas, the Karkotakas, the Virakas, and other peoples of no religion, one should always avoid.' Even thus did a Rakshasa woman of gigantic hips speak unto a brahmana who on a certain occasion went to that country for bathing in a sacred water and passed a single night there. The regions are called by the name of Arattas. The people residing there are called the Vahikas. The lowest of brahmanas also are residing there from very remote times. They are without the Veda and without knowledge, without sacrifice and without the power to assist at other's sacrifices. They are all fallen and many amongst them have been begotten by Shudras upon other peoples' girls. The gods never accept any gifts from them. The Prasthalas, the Madras, the Gandharas, the Arattas, those called Khasas, the Vasatis, the Sindhus and the Sauviras are almost as blamable in their practices.'"

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m08/m08044.htm

Is this translation incorrect also?
 
Sir (Roadrunner),

I just wana Salute
tup.gif
you on your thorough knowledge of our ancient history. Actually, we belong to great Indian Civilization and the people beyond sandy lands(Today's Bharat) are just lame Paindos, Great.

If Indian civilization in this case means those Ancient civilizations around the Indus River, then indeed Pakistanis do. If Indian civilization means modern day India, then no.
 
@RR & BTMN

IVC is a dravidian in origin and guess what Dravidians are there in INDIA i.e South INDIA

The language of the IVC isn't known.

This makes India a nation which is exclusively a continuation of IVC .
whts there so hard to understand,Native Americans wer called Indian becos columbus thought tht he reached Indian land everybody knows this, and If greeks didnt discovered India 2000yrs before than tht doesnt mean India didnt exist LOlz ,i donno how cud u say tht???,

Ancient Indian history from between 2,000 and 5,000 years ago all occurred in what is now Pakistan. The Greeks did not realize modern day India existed until much later. So how can Ancient Indian history refer to the history of modern day India?

anyways the findings in arabian coast says tht Ancient Egypt had trade relations with Ancient India(modern India comes to tht) like 3000yrs ago and this trade route is known as Spice sea route.

Some people might have known about the existence of Ancient Bharat. It's possible, but they didn't record it too well.

therefore when u say India wasnt discovered by greeks like 2000yrs before tht doesnt mean India didnt exist 2000 yrs before.

Bharat existed but much of the history of Ancient India was saved by the Greeks. They didn't even know of any land east of the Indus River.

ancient Town of Krshna in tamil nadu coast which is again is under the sea

So Bharati cities under the sea?

Pakistan is just a Indian land given to muslim league when jinnah asked for the Indian land for muslim league frm Nehru ,If gandhi and nehru migth hav refused than there wud be no pakistan at all cos muslim leagues ministers nvr won any of the elections against congress ministers in any part of the Indian Subcontinent. history also says tht even extremist Islamic regions like Paktooni regions there also congress won the election.
source:Nejam Sethi's video on pakistan's distorted history

in one of those videos he also said tht muslim leagues number one objective was "Hum British ke Wafadaar" lolz nobody can doubt it cuz if we read the history of political pakistan we can understand tht how u guys wer working for the Anglo-american interest in Asia and south Asia
hence in my understanding Nation of PAKISTAN is more like far eastern provinces of british empire(which is inherited as Anglo-American Empire) ...NO offence

All this is quite stupid.
 
You don't need to believe wiki. You can read the official version which is even more offensive than the wiki version.

~ snip ~

Is this translation incorrect also?

You have completely missed Joe's point. The apparent anomaly is due to interpolation of text. Mahabharata was not written by a single author, neither was it written in a single unbroken span of time. It was written by several authors, (three or four names are available within Mahabharata itself) at different times over a period of more than 400 years. This has resulted in something which can be loosely called bias of time, many of which can be detected by observing the tell-tale signs.

The passage that you have quoted is one such incidence of interpolation, and he has taken great pains to detail those tell-tale signs which, if read not in isolation and with a critical mind, give it away.

Reading these passages in complete isolation is akin to r@ping this epic.
 
The language of the IVC isn't known.



Ancient Indian history from between 2,000 and 5,000 years ago all occurred in what is now Pakistan. The Greeks did not realize modern day India existed until much later. So how can Ancient Indian history refer to the history of modern day India?



Some people might have known about the existence of Ancient Bharat. It's possible, but they didn't record it too well.



Bharat existed but much of the history of Ancient India was saved by the Greeks. They didn't even know of any land east of the Indus River.



So Bharati cities under the sea?



All this is quite stupid.

First, It is none of anybody's concern why India was named "India", but Indians

Second, we Indian never believed in the two nation theory(Jinnah would have liked India be named "Hindustan")

Third, either you don't know anything on IVC or deliberately misrepresenting or misinterpreting IVC. There lot of questions that arise from you posts: What is Aryan invasion? Why were IVC cities were burned and destroyed? Why most Hindu scripts originated from the banks of Indus? Why until now IVC scripts were not understood? Why there is no continuity of IVC?

Answer these and you will have much clearer idea on IVC and its legacy
 
You have completely missed Joe's point. The apparent anomaly is due to interpolation of text. Mahabharata was not written by a single author, neither was it written in a single unbroken span of time. It was written by several authors, (three or four names are available within Mahabharata itself) at different times over a period of more than 400 years. This has resulted in something which can be loosely called bias of time, many of which can be detected by observing the tell-tale signs.

The passage that you have quoted is one such incidence of interpolation, and he has taken great pains to detail those tell-tale signs which, if read not in isolation and with a critical mind, give it away.

Reading these passages in complete isolation is akin to r@ping this epic.

interpolation: a message (spoken or written) that is introduced or inserted

So you're saying it's all made-up, despite being in the official translation?
 
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