PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

http:///t-90-s-is-a-dud-it-cant-fire-far-enough

 

[Manticore]

 

[Dazzler]

Interesting thing in the above post to me is this...

ESM 500 transmission= already operational on Al-Khalid since 2005

Catherine FC= operational on AK since 2006-2007, SAGEM MATIS 3rd gen on AK-1.

Before anyone clutch on to a Versus battle, just a few things i thought of. Thats it.

 

[Manticore]

guys , need some correction -- this is my guess..

my guess--

type85-->Type 85-IIAP / Type 88 -->type90-->alkalid[type90-2] , type 96 [china] --> alkalid1 , alkalid2 , type 98, type99


t62->t64->t80->t80ud/t84
t62->t64->t72->t90 /T-72BU


*i dont know which chinese tank was a version of which russian tank

*Russian T-54 Tank which was produced in China as Type 59A . The re-built, upgraded variant of the Chinese Type 59-2 tank with 54 modifications is Al-Zarrar tank ---- so now alzarrar can be compared to which tank?

*as the russians didnot allow russian tech [t80ud] to be transferred to pak , so ukraine used its t84 tech instead for pak

*both t64 and t80 were hightech tanks and not allowed for export for a very long time




Al Khalid main battle tank is a variant of the MBT-2000 with some modifications. It is powered by Ukrainian 6TD diesel engine, developing 1 200 hp. Pakistan acquired license to produce these tanks locally;

VN1A, further development of the Type 90-II line, designed specially for export. It has some improvements over the Al Khalid and was selected by Peru.

i would love to have some answers !
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/106975-tank-designs-8.html

 

[Dazzler]

i would love to have some answers !
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/106975-tank-designs-8.html

Some confusion in the above....

We are talking about two different generations of tanks here. Second generation evolved into........
1. type-85> 85II> 85 III (85IIAP)> t-88> 88C> Type 96, finally 96G...

2. Third generation began from Type-90> 90II> 90IIM> MBT2000. What is needed to understand here is, Type 90 is a third gen mbt that has off springs in shape of mbt 2000, AK, type 98, 99, 99A, 99G etc. Now type 96 is still a second gen tank that is heavily revamped version of baseline type 85-II, III and eventually ended up as the most advanced SECOND Generation Chinese MBT type 96G.

 

[Dazzler]

t62->t64->t80->t80ud/t84
t62->t64->t72->t90 /T-72BU


*i dont know which chinese tank was a version of which russian tank

*Russian T-54 Tank which was produced in China as Type 59A . The re-built, upgraded variant of the Chinese Type 59-2 tank with 54 modifications is Al-Zarrar tank ---- so now alzarrar can be compared to which tank?

*as the russians didnot allow russian tech [t80ud] to be transferred to pak , so ukraine used its t84 tech instead for pak

*both t64 and t80 were hightech tanks and not allowed for export for a very long time




Al Khalid main battle tank is a variant of the MBT-2000 with some modifications. It is powered by Ukrainian 6TD diesel engine, developing 1 200 hp. Pakistan acquired license to produce these tanks locally;

VN1A, further development of the Type 90-II line, designed specially for export. It has some improvements over the Al Khalid and was selected by Peru.

The Russian route goes like this....

High end was t-54> t-64>t-80> 80U

Low end became T-62> 72, 72M, 72S

The t-72BU, experimentally equipped with T-80 sights, auoloader, computer, became the basis of T-90 so one can say that in t-90, both high and low ends merged.

Both Alkhalid and VT-1A are vastly improved variants of mbt 2000 but have very different equipment housed in them. AKs have mostly western/ indigenous whereas VT has all Chinese/ Ukrainian engine (same as AK)

 

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

nabil , a question -- i started a thread on alkhalid on the serbian site -- they were asking if it was inspired by t72/t90 or t80 --- or what % from both , if its a hybrid


they are mostly inclined towards t72 , however i think more inspiration is of t80 after looking through the new design pics -- posted in the tank designs thread

 

[Dazzler]

the initial project that began by China was an inspiration by t-72 but as project continued and took a shape in Type 90IIm, it shared an inspiration from t-80 but not by much. However, Pak Army always admired the performance of t-80ud and wanted AK to be at least twice as good in most performance domains. A Russian analyst also highlighted this in his article that AK has many similarities with Ukrainian T-84 than Russian T-72. This was the reason why Pak went for Ukrainian engine, KBA-3 series gun because they liked their performance, accuracy and increased barrel life as compared to original Russian 2a46m-1 series barrels in baseline t-80Us. Apart of this, AK shares some other similarities with T-84 such as similar tracks, engine, missile control channel for Kombat ATGM etc. AK in present form (AK-1) is equally matched in general performance, battle field efficiency by Oplot, T-90M etc.

 

[Manticore]

History of Soviet tanks – T-72 difference from T-64/ T-80


Maybe this will explain that T-72 was not the only and not the best Soviet tank....


Contrary to the basic believe of the western and even Russian public T-72 is not a development of T-64A (the Soviet Main Battle Tank). T-72 vas development of Ural design bureau experimental tank that lost the competition to T-64 predecessor o. 430. That is why T-72 use the 22 rounds autoloader previously planned for modernized T-62. A completely different drivetrain and different turret.
The T-72 series itself was a “mobilization” tank of the soviet army. It was designed for mass production in war time in huge numbers.

T-72 predecessor o. 140 and 167

The most important threads of Soviet tank development before 1966

Basically the first automatic fire control and gun-lunched missile appeared on T-64B in 1976. Then it was installed on T-80. The automatic fire control was never installed on T-72 or it’s versions.
The same story with armor – while the T-64-s and T-80 was equipment with high cost composite armor the T-72 had the simplest possible sand rods and then reflecting plates which were much less valuable than advanced compositions of T-80U …
So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)…

The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966

FIRE CONTROL

1-st T-72 and T-80/64 were equipped with different guns.
T-80/64 received newest guns much before T-72-variants.

T-64 fire control consists of (basic information)

Targeting complex 1A34
-laser sight 1G42 with block of shot permission 1G43 and tank ballistic computer 1V517.
The AUTOMATIC sensors of entering information are
Heel sensor 1B14
Wind sensor 1B11
relative bearing sensor
tank speed sensor

The following information is entered before combat manually is temperature of the air, type of ammunition batch, atmosphere pressure, charge temperature, air temperature, barrel wear.

In the automatic fire control the correction factor for target range, tank speed, target speed, wind are entered automatically. The gunner just puts the mark on the target and the gun is adjusted automatically to required position, the mark does not change it’s position.


What is T-72B fire control –

The automatic fire control was not installed on T-72.
Instead of ballistic computer the tank is equipped with ballistic corrector.
The correction factor for target range tank speed, target speed, wind are not entered automatically. The wind correction factor is measured “by eye” (until the last serial versions and T-72C).
The gunner puts the mark on the target measures the range with LRF, the mark moves lover depending on range … It requires more time then with automatic FCS.
Another diference of T-72B from T-64/80B is that T-72 can not fire guided missiles while moving…

placements of fire control elements inside the T-72B combat compartament

1 – executive cylinder of vertical drive VN
2 – Block for entering corrections
3 – guidance block for 9K120
4 – control block
5 – converter for 9K120
6 – electric module of 1A40-1
7 – round
8 – guided missile
9 – block for entering range
10 – horizontal drive GN
12 – electric machine booster
13 – 1K13 sight
14 - 1A40-1 targeting complex

 

[Manticore]

^source , ive posted the first post -- very long discussion below it, which i didnt read

History of Soviet tanks – T-72 difference from T-64/ T-80 at tanknet

 

[Myth_buster_1]

bit off topic but how many of u guys r playing world of tanks?

 

[MrIndianSikh]

this has already been stated but comparing the tanks on paper won't do any good the T90 nor the Al Khalid has been used in combat and there are many factors to consider in tank warfare such as the habitat in which the tanks are operated in for example the T90 has had issues operating in cold weather another factor that comes in is the skill of a tank crew i can tell you right now the armor and the APS on the T90 makes it one of the best tanks in the world the Al Khalid armor is not as good as the Konkat or Kaktus armor nonetheless comparing tanks can only be done when and IF the tanks are used in combat

 

[Dazzler]

this has already been stated but comparing the tanks on paper won't do any good the T90 nor the Al Khalid has been used in combat and there are many factors to consider in tank warfare such as the habitat in which the tanks are operated in for example the T90 has had issues operating in cold weather another factor that comes in is the skill of a tank crew i can tell you right now the armor and the APS on the T90 makes it one of the best tanks in the world the Al Khalid armor is not as good as the Konkat or Kaktus armor nonetheless comparing tanks can only be done when and IF the tanks are used in combat

How on earth you know AK armor not as good as Kontakt-5 or Kaktus??? Have you seen it getting blown during trials?? Please refrain from throwing your opinions on things you have no idea about. For your info, K-5 is already operational on our T-80uds since late 90s, it was among basic requirements by Pak Army. What AK and later AK-1 has, is superior to K-5. Go to ::GLOBAL INDUSTRIAL AND DEFENCE SOLUTIONS :: and see the ERA section where you will not find any info. This is due to a secrecy reason.