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Russian Engines to Fly to Pakistan

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We tried...most of the stuff is Indian. and there is a saying 'why reinvent the wheel'. India is planning to import small stuff like engines and stuff for its LCA, and that too cuz kaveri is not yet ready. What is most imp is the xperience. HAL can call the project a technology demonstrator for face saving. or whatever. You cant BUY experience.

And FYI the plane does work and works beautifully...some things need to be rectified, its under development.Wait till it comes out. Then the MCA will rock ;) Its india's first attempt at an aircraft...woohoo...
 
What was that Ghalib sher Neo once told us...

Dil ki tassali k liay yeh khayal bhi acha hai, ghalib.
 
sher by god knows who ;)

jurm uska nahin jo bhaga aur haar gaya, jurm uska hai jo bhaga hi nahin :)

ur smart;)

and ask any1 who u consider is worthy of listening , prolly OOE or whomever and ask them whether what i am saying is wrong...first attempt, indigenous craft, indian bird, no JV gives this stuff....is it important to do it? is it necessary to end dependence on foreign birds or JV's and use one's own planes? and how will the next one be?
 
lol!
if u'v researched a but u will see that apart from an F-16 block 60/70, the other planes cant even match the Su 30 MKI!,,,,,bear in mind that the MKI is hell of a lot different from the K, MK and the MKK. Its a 4.5 gen craft, so if u leav the pride aside u will c the difference. And on top of that the Mig 29's are gonna get upgraded! and not to mention the new MRCA's :D . Also the collaboration for a true 5th gen craft with Russia :D and if the new a/c is the F/A-18 F with AESA radar.....life gets sweeter.
MKI is no doubt an excellent platform and PAF has nothing to match it today but the induction of Erieye is going to change a lot, block 52 F-16C/D will do the job required to counter the MKI.
FC-20 is expected to come around 2010/11 and its a gen 4.5 fighter. :)

Oh, dont worry about us getting sleepless nights....we'r already having them with the new F-16 planes that u bought ;)...the IAF wants to be qualitatively and quantitatively ahead. The quantitativ gap was decreasing....they'r trying to arrest that.
India requires three times as much as Pakistan to maintain current status-quo.
We're closing in. ;)
 
my friend the problem is that the bonhomie that was the hallmark of our relations with Soviet have now dissapeared...its commerce to them now...true, this is not sensitive tech at all, the engines that is, but still....if India increases its defense relation with USA, and thereby reducing it with Russia, Russia will start to sell small items to Pakistan as a start.
Thats exactly whats gonna happen.

the other hand , even if Russia does sell small stuff to Pakistan, and we buy hell of a lot more stuff from the US, we can pressure US govt to stop military aid to Pakistan. Most of the equipment Pakistan got from US was at low prices, they cant afford to spend too much on defence on acc. of their economy. We'r at an advantage ;)
Lol...you couldn't stop your closest ally, how do you think you'll stop USA?
Previous attempts to block F-16's failed miserably. :P
 
If FC-20 is2.5 gen a/c, then FC-20 will be the one to match MKI, not the f-16 blk 52. Nothing short of a blk 60 can even think of matching a MKI.

and what do u think India is doing while u induct Erieye?? Phalcons on their way baby :D :D . One of the most advanced AWACS that currently exists . It is far superior to the Erieye. Supposedly can jam an Erieye . China tried to buy the Phalcon from Israel but US denied China ;) I believe there was a discussion about AWACS in here that proves what i say. Let me search for it.

Yeh i agree ur closing in...but the qualitative gap is increasing and the cuz ur closing in , its given teh IAF sleepless nights and the'r bringing the 200 MRCA's combined (>130 for the Navy). So the numbers remain :D
 
. Pakistan has much lesser money, a bad economy, so they will always have equipment that is not as gd as ours:yahoo:
If you really think that our economy is in bad shape you need to update yourself.
Our economy has recordeD more than 7% growth for the last four years and this year the target will be met again due good abount of rain fall.
FDI is all time high and there's a allocated budget for mega development projects is unprecedentedly high.
We're keeping pace with India which is growing at 8%, slightly stronger than Pakistan.

so as is stated above: ECONOMY is the future...money is the future.
Agreed!
 
btw India's collaboration with the Glossnass project is not confirmed i think..it is meant to be an alternative to the american GPS, like the european Galllileo system, however the US pressurized EU not to use it for military purposes. Galellio is much more advanced than the GPS with a acuracy of 1m rather than the 10m for GPS.

Malay your full of wrong infromations.
Galilio is advanced as it is new gen GPS.
Us navster have started fielding its 3rd gen GPS.
While glonass newer gen is under research and a JV too.

here is the link
Moscow, Oct 27 (PTI) Russian parliament today ratified the Indo-Russian space cooperation agreement by a unanimous vote, clearing the way for the joint space exploration and transfer of space technology to India.

The draft Indo-Russian space cooperation agreement ratified by Federation Council, the upper chamber of Russian Federal Assembly, had been signed in New Delhi during President Vladimir Putin's visit in December 2004.

The agreement sets a streamlined system and identifies the mechanism for enhanced cooperation in peaceful exploration of space, including the protection of secret information and intellectual property rights and settling disputes.

State Duma, the lower house of Russian parliament, had ratified the agreement on October 20.

Once signed into law by President Putin in the wake of parliament's nod, the accord would speed up the joint collaboration in completing and operationalising the Global Navigational Satellite System (GLONASS) to end the monopoly of the Pentagon-controlled US Global Positioning System (GPS), said sources at Russian Federal Space Agency 'Roskosmos'.

ok i hope ur question is answered.
Asim Aqil > LCA is not failed i repeat.
I posted a link to a PDf file in another thread pls read it to see the tech we developed for LCA.
Also i
'll find the article by a neutral source said LCA was to overhaul of the whole industry.

neo highsea is right then but i'll confirm from some other sources too later, keypub forums.
 
my friend the problem is that the bonhomie that was the hallmark of our relations with Soviet have now dissapeared...its commerce to them now...true, this is not sensitive tech at all, the engines that is, but still....if India increases its defense relation with USA, and thereby reducing it with Russia, Russia will start to sell small items to Pakistan as a start.
It hasnt.
We have gone stronger and now its a give-give relationship not pet-dog one.
Russias economy is slower than India, we are kinda in same position economy wise than in soviet USSR days.
so its bound to change, just like china-us changed china-ussr changed.
we r no longer pets but ALLIES!

what do u think indo-pak war russia will support pakistan?
 
Neo, what i mean is that it is not as good as India. Pakistan has a much better economy under Musharraf than was before. There is no second thought about that. The economy is growing as it should have though a long time ago. And like i also said in a previous post...it is in every1's interest to have Pakistan's economy stable and growing :)
 
Here is another link

India, Russia to launch satellite for youth

India and Russia are working on a satellite that will enable communication between youths of the two countries, Indo-Asia News Service quoted President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam as saying in South India's Hyderabad Thursday.

"The (Indian) government has approved the design and development of a youth satellite and its launching in collaboration with Russia," Kalam said while interacting with students at a science congress in Hyderabad.

"Later, this facility will be made available to other countries as well," Kalam said. The satellite would be launched by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).

Russia, India to use Glonass satellite system together

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20061004/54513431.html

MOSCOW, October 4 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and India will use a 24-satellite navigational and global positioning system, Glonass, together, a spokesman for the Russian Federal Space Agency said.
"A Russian inter-departmental delegation will arrive in India to coordinate the details October 27," Igor Panarin said.

Glonass, a Russian analogue of the United States Global Positioning System, is designed to allow both military and civilian users around the globe to receive signals from satellites to identify their positions in real time. It can also be used in geological prospecting.

Panarin said India's access to information from and joint operation of Glonass-M and Glonass-K satellites were discussed on the sidelines of the Space Generation Congress, under way in Valencia, Spain.

Two types of satellites are currently in use - Glonass and its updated version Glonass-M. Glonass-M has a longer service life of seven years and is equipped with updated antenna feeder systems, and an additional navigation frequency for civilian users.

A future modification, Glonass-K, is an entirely new model. Tests on Glonass-K satellites are scheduled for 2007. They are small spacecraft that are considerably lighter than their previous models, which makes them less costly to put into orbit.

Their weight also allows the use of a wider range of carrier rockets. Glonass-Ks' estimated service life has been increased to 10-12 years, and a third "civilian" L-range frequency was added.

The Defense Ministry said August 30 Glonass will be fully deployed by 2010, when the number of satellites will be brought from the current 17 to 24.

Panarin also said Russia will launch a small research satellite, Youthsat, which is an Indo-Russian project, and an agreement on the matter could be signed in November.

"The satellite will be built in India and launched by a Russian carrier rocket," Panarin said.


Panarin said Igor Perminov, Federal Space Agency chief, and Madhavan Nair, who heads India's Space Research Organization, met to discuss progress under a contract to supply Russian-made cryogenic engines to India's GSLV geosynchronous launch vehicles.

Russia is expected to supply seven cryogenic upper stages to India, which originally wanted to buy the Russian technology to build the engines domestically, but U.S. pressure prevented their delivery. India has been working to develop a cryogenic engine for the past 11 years.

Working to cut its dependence on foreign launch vehicles, India has had four operational GSLV flights since 2004 using Russian engines for the upper stage.
These article was before the bill passed in ovt 27. hope this clears ur doubt.

and recently check last line india is working on its own cryogenic engines.
here is another article.
India conducts first cryogenic rocket test

BANGALORE: In a major breakthrough in its space programme, India on Saturday successfully conducted the first test of its indigenously developed cryogenic rocket engine at a facility at Mahindragiri in Tamil Nadu.

"We had a very successful first cryogenic stage test at Mahindragiri at 6.20 pm. It is a major milestone in the development of rocket systems in the country," Indian Space Research Organisation Chairman G Madhavan Nair said.

The test at ISRO's Liquid Propulsion Centre at Mahindragiri lasted 50 seconds, he said.

"Only developed countries have this stage. We have also qualified now," Nair said.


"We will go for one more long duration test in the next three or four days which will make it ready for flight."

The cryogenic rocket engine that ISRO successfully tested on Saturday was equivalent to the "Russian stage" supplied earlier, Nair said

Hope this clears your doubt bout indias participation in it.
For your information india will develope GAGAN for civil use.
and have access to Galilio as well so that if anything wents wrong in next 2 decade it can have all tech for launching its own GPS.
 
Malay,

I replied to your claim that we can't afford to buy better since you're the one with the money.
Its true, India GDP is 7 times bigger than ours and defence budget 5 times higher but you'll need to spend more and more to maintain current status-quo of 3:1 which only a decade ago was 4:1!

Pakistan has limited resources and we're spending it smart! There are no failed projects, most products we've designed and developped are being marketed for export to reduce production cost and we too are looking into JV's for near future.
 
Russia wont support Pakistan ever in case of war. I said that i agree with your point of view.We are allies now. Your digging up an old post LOL.

GLONASS may already be a JV, my info was outdated. About Galileo, Galileo was developed as an alternative to the american GPS. I have read it somewhere, i cant find it riht now so will post a link as soon as i can. The initial purpose was that in all technology the european countries had to ask US for the classified codes to target an are like for tomahawk missile. They wanted to end the dependence on the pentagon. Thus galileo. I will ry and post the link.
 
ok i'm posting it for you US have effectivelyt reduced some effects of Galilio.
they were definitely worried from EU:P .
EU's scientists r not someone to mess with.
A interesting thing have you noticed India is INCREASING ITS BUSINESS HORRENDINOUSLY WITH EU?
today a delegation from belgium was here.
What’s the frequency, Jacques?
by Taylor Dinerman
Monday, March 1, 2004

The European Space Agency and the EU have decided to build a satellite navigation system, similar to the US Navstar/GPS system, called Galileo. Publicly, they claimed that they were doing so because they distrusted the US, and feared that the Pentagon might somehow disrupt the GPS signal. They also claimed that they needed to build this system in order to protect Europe’s independence from the US. Their plan, as it now stands, is to launch two test satellites that will begin transmitting, on frequencies allocated to the Europeans by the International Telecommunications Union, in 2006. In 2008, they hope to begin launching the first of 30 operational navigation satellites.

The just announced agreement between the European Union and the US concerning the frequencies to be used by Galileo has been portrayed as a win-win solution. In fact, it is an almost total victory for the Bush administration and a serious defeat for France’s long-term effort to create a European military organization rival to NATO. Other European states, especially the smaller ones, had no desire to drive yet another nail into the coffin of US-European friendship. Few governments in Europe wish to surrender their long-standing ties to America in order to propitiate France’s dream of European hegemony.

American military forces depend on GPS in almost every aspect of their military operations. GPS timing signals are used by almost every communications system in the Pentagon’s inventory. Just a few years ago, France was counting on the so-called “frequency overlay,” to force the US to either jam its own GPS signal in order to deny its use to an enemy or to have to ask permission from a European Commission body in order to conduct military operations anywhere in the world. The frequency overlay would have given the French a sort of a veto over US national security policy.

At first, the US hoped to persuade the Europeans not to build Galileo, but the French were able to make enough of a stink about US interference so as to convince the other European governments to go along. They also agreed to have most of the work for the system done outside France, even while paying the lion’s share of the cost. In typical French fashion, they are willing to surrender their own taxpayers’ and workers’ interests in order to inflict what they hope will be harm on US hyperpuissance.

After the US realized that the Galileo system would probably be built, the Bush administration decided to concentrate on reducing the harm that Galileo could do to GPS. After many long and tough negotiating sessions, the EU agreed to move the quasi-military coded Publicly Regulated Service (PRS) signal to a place on the radio band where it would not interfere with the US plans for a new military signal, called M Code, that will be broadcast by the GPS -3 constellation, to be launched by the US by the end of this decade or thereabouts.


The rest of the agreements have now fallen into place and, in exchange for an essentially meaningless US agreement not to demand a veto over Galileo operations, the Europeans have given in to the US on all major issues. The EU has agreed to move the common signal, which is comparable to the open GPS one used by hikers, truck drivers and the public at large.

This is an unalloyed triumph for the Bush Administration and for Colin Powell’s State Department. It shows that sometimes, America’s diplomats are capable of being just as hard-line and as tough as her military. It is to be hoped that this example will be emulated by others in the department, whose reputation for ferociously defending America’s global interests is not quite as stellar as the one the Bureau of Oceans, Environment, and Science has now acquired.

Galileo will probably now go ahead, though the French may lose their enthusiasm for funding it. The idea that European private enterprise will make a legitimate capitalistic investment in the system was never really in the cards. Today, the Europeans are trying to get nations such as China, Israel, and Brazil to join them in building Galileo while, at the same time, promising never to allow these partners access to the militarily useful signals. Over time, it could become a useful adjunct to GPS. If the public signal can be refined to a one-meter accuracy, then it could become an extremely valuable tool for subsistence farmers in the developing world. Of course, this would require the development of simple electronic receiver/mapper/calculators for precision agriculture but, given the demand and the potential of such devices, they will surely be designed and built over the next few years.

In the end, GPS and Galileo could make a serious contribution to the struggle against world hunger, and that would be far more important than France’s effort to inflict some minor harm on America’s global power. Meanwhile, it will be interesting to see how, or if, the Pentagon budgeteers will capitalize on this State Department success by accelerating the development of GPS 3.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/107/1
A interesting game is going on.
with thousands shairing Galili, US maintaining its monopoly over Navster we r better off with Glonass only 2 countries "the millitary signal"
since its JV there is no question of denying of service ever.
 
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