What is being done with Islam !!!!!

[FlyingEagle]

@Berzerk: Sorry for asking a question without googling first

Now this is what I found by googling, and it says that Women can lead prayers. Now, again I found some sites where it says it is strictly prohibited. Now which one can be taken as the rule?

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Title:
Why Can't Women Lead Prayers?

Question:

In a recent argument with a feminist theologian (also my professor), I felt as though I needed further explanation on the issue of why women cannot lead a Sala'h. I know that it is a matter of modesty, but let us say that in this day and age if you have women on one side, a wall in between and men on the other... why couldn't a woman lead the sala'h?


Answer:

There is no specific directive of the Shari`ah that prohibits a woman from leading prayers. Therefore, we cannot say that Islam prohibits a woman from leading prayers.
The matter actually relates to the general practice of the Prophet (pbuh), which was subsequently followed by the Muslim leaders that followed the Prophet (pbuh). This practice of the Prophet (pbuh) as well as the Muslim leaders, who followed him, subsequently became a part of the social traditions of the Muslims. Thus, it is not a directive of the Shari`ah, but a part of the Muslim cultural tradition that men, rather than women should lead prayers. This gender-based distinction, it seems, has its basis on a few important facts.
For instance, although the Prophet (pbuh) encouraged Muslim women to come to the mosques to offer their obligatory prayers with the congregation, yet it was not as strong a directive for them, as it was for the Muslim men. The nature and the variance of the Prophet (pbuh)'s directive has generally resulted in a lower number of Muslim women being present in mosques, as compared to men. In many places, women are not even seen (even in lower numbers) in mosques. Thus, especially when the over whelming majority of people present in mosques consists of men, it was natural that a man was appointed as the Imam to lead the prayers.
Moreover, because the Imam holds a central position in the mosque and naturally becomes the center of attention for all those who are present, it seemed a better decision that a man, rather than a woman, be appointed for this position. We obviously do not have any control over the thoughts and emotions of all those present in the mosque. Thus, to keep the minds clear of any sexual thoughts, especially in the mosques, it was felt more appropriate to appoint a man as the Imam.
These are a few of the points that have played a role in the general acceptance of this socio-cultural tradition among the Muslims. The matter, as I have stated earlier does not pertain to any prohibition of the Shari`ah.


Why Can't Women Lead Prayers?

Let me explain u some facts abt Islam. Teachings of Islam depends upon two things
1. Quran
2. Sunnat (Doings of Muhammad S.a.W.w) and Hadith (Saying of Muhammad S.A.W.W)

In Quran we get an order from Allah Almighty that say ur prayer. But from sunnah and hadith its clear that how to say prayer (Method).

Why woman cannot do Imamat/lead prayer?
Firstly At the time of Muhammad S.A.W.W we didn't saw such example. All the other things are secondary.
Some logics are as under:
1. Some medical reasons are there.
2. Pragnancy and after it some time.
3. Baby Feed. Some prayers specially Esha and travi in ramzan need 2 hrs even.
4. At Fajar and Esha its dark outside and difficult for a lady to go out of her house at that time. It may cause some other problems (Kidnaping and mis use of her etc etc)

One last thing according to my knowledge Pandits in mandir, Fathers in churches, cinegoj* (sorry for spellings) in jews etc etc. All are headed by males

Can anyone give me any refference that any religious prayers are lead by any lady in any religion?????????????????????

Just think about the following lines. Take it possitive and no offence plz:
When a nun cover itself no body cares but when a muslim lady take hijab or vail sb ko mirchy kyun lag jati hay????????????

No offence plz. Its just like I ask a question why there are not female pandits in mandirs who can lead the ati or maha puja or sharath or some other vidi?

 

[FlyingEagle]

Islam is not depend upon any site. It depend upon its teachings. I hope the question is answered.

 

[Luftwaffe]

The rules of salah should be known from scholars because they know how to interpret the sayings of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Among those great scholars are `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her). Among the rules of salah are the requirements and prerequisites for how to perform it, who can lead the people in salah, and so on.

Scholars have put certain conditions for someone to be qualified to lead the people in Prayer. The imam must be a Muslim, sane, adolescent, male, and pure, i.e., have wudu’ (ablution). Women leading men in Prayer is wrong, whether in fard (obligatory) or nafl (supererogatory) Prayers. But if the followers are only women, it is allowed for a woman to lead the Prayer. According to Shafi`is and Hanbalis, a woman can lead other women in Prayer while standing in the middle of the line. According to Malikis, women cannot lead other women in Prayer at all, while the Hanafis say it is makruh or blameworthy.

According to the hadith of Umm Waraqah reported in the Sunan of Abu Dawud, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) appointed a muezzin for her, and ordered her to lead her family members in Prayer.

The majority of Muslim jurists say that there is no single incident where a woman led a mixed Prayer outside her family members.

Having said that, we cannot find one single proof that women can lead men outside their family members in salah, and going with the hadith “pray as you see me praying”, we cannot innovate a way of performing salah.

 

[FlyingEagle]

These women should taught a lesson.....they insulted islam....kill them..

Thanks for take them wrong but this type of killing is not allowed in Islam. These are just pics. Maybe they are fake. Islam based on rational facts. The women in it are innocent unless you have any witness you cann't do any think. When its proved and they found guilty then some punisment can be announced.

Some extra info fo u is as under:
Think this is wrong and protect yourself from its doing is also a type of jihad. This is called "jihad bil Amal" means galat cheez ko dil ma bura jano. I you have power stop them by ur hand. if not stop them by words. if not possible just think that thing bad in ur heart and try to safe urself from it.

 

[xdrive]

I don't understand what is wrong with the pictures?

The islam religion is notorious of violating the human rights of women. Does it aactually say in your bible that women must cover up?
I heard that women never use to have to cover up. In my eyes, women do not have to cover up to show faith to there religion, it's just something invented by men to keep there women devoted to them.

I find it shocking that some people in here are saying "they must be punished" Because i know what the punishment is in muslim countries and it is not pretty. Women are human beings, they have the right to wear what they want, they have right to practice there religion the way they want too without being influenced by men who think they know what is best.

 

[FlyingEagle]

I don't understand what is wrong with the pictures?

The islam religion is notorious of violating the human rights of women. Does it aactually say in your bible that women must cover up?
I heard that women never use to have to cover up. In my eyes, women do not have to cover up to show faith to there religion, it's just something invented by men to keep there women devoted to them.

I find it shocking that some people in here are saying "they must be punished" Because i know what the punishment is in muslim countries and it is not pretty. Women are human beings, they have the right to wear what they want, they have right to practice there religion the way they want too without being influenced by men who think they know what is best.

Well the answer is simple. Let me explain u in simple words. for eveything there are some limits. eg one is not allowed to do S*** in the surroundigs of any holy place in any religion. bcoz one is binded in it.
Now in prayer the way is defined and is also binded. One have to follow it then he/she will be able to say prayer properly. for a muslim women duing her prayer she has to cover her head, hairs, ears and rest of the body except portion from eye brows to chin, hands and feet can be naked.
In pictues one problem is this some girls didn't cover themselves accordingly. Secondly in 2nd picture you can see a lady is standing infront of all the ladies and gents. This is not allowed. 3rdly males and females are saying their prayer by standing closer to each other. This is also not allowed.

 

[Luftwaffe]

my dear read your bible and check out 100 years earlier the women of the west you'll find your answer in there and use your logic when a semi naked woman is passing by a street at the same time a covered woman is passing by who do you think men will hoot at.? And yes all over Islamic world women are not forced they love it as they like it. Present a proof of men inventing it i shall agree by that time with you.
Much better dress than today.

 

[xdrive]

Well the answer is simple. Let me explain u in simple words. for eveything there are some limits. eg one is not allowed to do S*** in the surroundigs of any holy place in any religion. bcoz one is binded in it.
Now in prayer the way is defined and is also binded. One have to follow it then he/she will be able to say prayer properly. for a muslim women duing her prayer she has to cover her head, hairs, ears and rest of the body except portion from eye brows to chin, hands and feet can be naked.
In pictues one problem is this some girls didn't cover themselves accordingly. Secondly in 2nd picture you can see a lady is standing infront of all the ladies and gents. This is not allowed. 3rdly males and females are saying their prayer by standing closer to each other. This is also not allowed.

But who says women have to cover up? Someone told me it doesnt say it anywhere in your bible, it's just a rule some people have made up.

Women can choose to cover up or not. It's there human rights. Most muslim girls do not cover up in australia unless they want to.

my dear read your bible and check out 100 years earlier the women of the west you'll find your answer in there and use your logic when a semi naked woman is passing by a street at the same time a covered woman is passing by who do you think men will hoot at.? And yes all over Islamic world women are not forced they love it as they like it. Present a proof of men inventing it i shall agree by that time with you.
Much better dress than today.

Of course men made it up, it's not in your bible and men make most women wear it, so it must be men who made it up. To prevent other men from looking at there wifes. In some countries if women do not obey what there men say, the men can hit them and do other things to them. Making women cover up is dregrading. They should do it by choice with no influence by men.

In australia.

It's illegal for men to force there wives to cover up etc.
It's illegal for men to beat there wives.
It's illegal for men to force there wife to have sex with them.

Women are human beings and should be treated like human beings who are equal with men.

 

[Luftwaffe]

not my bible..I'm a Muslim but i have read bible for the purpose of comparative studies.

List me the exact law that says it is illegal for men to force their wives to cover. And do you insist women should not cover their bodies?

Agreed it is illegal for men to beat their wives have a look at the statistics of the world West has astounding number of women beaten by men for various reason. If you were trying to point infact you are pointing at Muslims beating women your pathetically wrong because of "some people" you cannot point out at the whole community or "Islam and Muslims"

Again you're trying to point out at Muslims and Islam..and patheticlly your wrong again the sexual assault on wives is in the west according to the western statistics just google. Suggest you to come back to the subject do not deviate.

 

[FlyingEagle]

But who says women have to cover up? Someone told me it doesnt say it anywhere in your bible, it's just a rule some people have made up.

Women can choose to cover up or not. It's there human rights. Most muslim girls do not cover up in australia unless they want to.

A woman is like a



and man is like a

The creator knows best how to protect it. Obviously by covring it.

 

[FireFighter]

These women should taught a lesson.....they insulted islam....kill them..

Your attempt at sarcasm is really pathetic and obnoxious.

Keep these idiotic anti-islamic comments in your head, no need to flaunt your idiocy in public for the world to see.

In australia.

It's illegal for men to force there wives to cover up etc.
It's illegal for men to beat there wives.
It's illegal for men to force there wife to have sex with them.

Women are human beings and should be treated like human beings who are equal with men.

Actually Islam is the first and last religion that gave women equal status to men and also gave them political rights and freedoms to participate in politics and do business with an entrepreneurial spirit - women may lead businesses and may lead their constuents in public. Also it's the first religion to free women from historical systematic domesticated slavery - islamic law doesn't make it obligatory for women to do traditional child-rearing and housework, rather those actions are considered charitable. Having said this, with rights come responsibilities, and Islamic law greatly emphasizes both.


Whereas in Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism women were not granted equal status to men, they didn't have political rights, and they were subjected to domesticated oppression. That is because the messages of those religions were location and time specific, according to Islam.

Also Islam is the first and last religion to recognize other religious laws and gives human beings the freedom to practice what they believe. The Quranic verse, roughly translated says, "To me is my religion, and to you is yours" marking a historical change and giving humans the right to practice their religions peacefully. Muslims believe that Islam completes the overall message of the Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Judaism were time and location specific, whereas Islam is universal.

Many people in the west view and equate Islam as an Arab religion based on tribalism. And the secularists view it as any other ''out-dated'' and "backward" religions like Christianity, Judism or Hinduism with hostility. Partly because religious teachings are eliminated from primary and secondary education and no concept religious differences being discussed in classrooms. And their limited understanding of Islam is derived from negative mass media stories with Islam treated as inferior and openly despised using labeling and framing techniques by the corporate media, with deeply rooted hatred of Islam is rooted in either complete ignorance of Islamic Law or Faith or historical crusades between euro-centric Christian and Islamic forces.

 

[third eye]

Your attempt at sarcasm is really pathetic and obnoxious.

Keep these idiotic anti-islamic comments in your head, no need to flaunt your idiocy in public for the world to see.


Actually Islam is the first and last religion that gave women equal status to men and also gave them political rights and freedoms to participate in politics and do business with an entrepreneurial spirit - women may lead businesses and may lead their constuents in public. Also it's the first religion to free women from historical systematic domesticated slavery - islamic law doesn't make it obligatory for women to do traditional child-rearing and housework, rather those actions are considered charitable. Having said this, with rights come responsibilities, and Islamic law greatly emphasizes both.


Whereas in Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism women were not granted equal status to men, they didn't have political rights, and they were subjected to domesticated oppression. That is because the messages of those religions were location and time specific, according to Islam.

Also Islam is the first and last religion to recognize other religious laws and gives human beings the freedom to practice what they believe. The Quranic verse, roughly translated says, "To me is my religion, and to you is yours" marking a historical change and giving humans the right to practice their religions peacefully. Muslims believe that Islam completes the overall message of the Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Judaism were time and location specific, whereas Islam is universal.

Many people in the west view and equate Islam as an Arab religion based on tribalism. And the secularists view it as any other ''out-dated'' and "backward" religions like Christianity, Judism or Hinduism with hostility. Partly because religious teachings are eliminated from primary and secondary education and no concept religious differences being discussed in classrooms. And their limited understanding of Islam is derived from negative mass media stories with Islam treated as inferior and openly despised using labeling and framing techniques by the corporate media, with deeply rooted hatred of Islam is rooted in either complete ignorance of Islamic Law or Faith or historical crusades between euro-centric Christian and Islamic forces.

At the cost of entering uncharted territory, my 1st thoughts on reading this post are what equality are we talking of for women if :

a man can marry four of them ?

He can shed her at will .

Domestic slavery remains if she is not permitted to exit the house / home to pursue her own interests / profession in the manner she feels fit.

..and so many more.

No one ( including me) I feel has the right to comment on another religion as these are very personal decisions which have been arrived at after centuries of trial & error or thought.

Hence, even though I feel differently on a No of issues raised in the previous posts - I'll reserve my comments except for the one I read that said that the ladies should be killed for praying in a manner considered incorrect.This I feel is not in order by any standards.

 

[FireFighter]

But who says women have to cover up? Someone told me it doesnt say it anywhere in your bible, it's just a rule some people have made up.

Women can choose to cover up or not. It's there human rights. Most muslim girls do not cover up in australia unless they want to.

All societies have dress codes and the requirements of what to cover and what not to differ greatly across the world and are based on Public Decency laws.

Now who decides what women or men should cover? and how much they must cover? Well these rules fall under public decency laws. For ex, in some ancient African tribal culture it's completely normal for women to show breasts and walk around in public, and that is based on their ancient tribal codes. Women walking around showing breasts in Canada or the US is considered "indecent" and are usually picked up by the police and sent to prison. we call it a ''feminist revolt''. Because Public decency laws in the west criminalizes revealing breasts or private parts/genitals in public.

In Canada and the US, decency laws require men and women to cover their private parts. Now what are those laws based on? the Bible? Secularism? or What? Well! At the end of the day, they're all rulings derived from laws, regardless of what they're based on, they all tend to provide a guideline so as to meantime public order and peace.

Similarly, Islamic law also has a section on Public decency laws. The Quran requires both women AND men to cover. But requirements differ due to inherent physical and psychological differences in men and women. Men are required to cover "navel to knees" and women from "head to ankles", with face, hands and feet are allowed to be exposed in public. Islamic law derives rulings from the Quranic verses, such as this that commands women to cover:

The surah 24:30-31 say:[6]
“ And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; [...] (Qur'an 24:31)

Hope this helps

 

[FlyingEagle]

Dear its good you comment bcoz it shows the misunderstanding that many non muslims have. I'll try to clear it to you.

At the cost of entering uncharted territory, my 1st thoughts on reading this post are what equality are we talking of for women if :
a man can marry four of them ?
He can shed her at will ..

He can marry 4 but thee is a restriction that he has to gave equal rights to all and its impossile to meet 4 wifes in a day. And it is cleared
A translation of a verse is:

"you are allowed to have 4 wifes at a time, but with equal rights and we know you cannot make it"

Domestic slavery remains if she is not permitted to exit the house / home to pursue her own interests / profession in the manner she feels fit.
..and so many more..

Its not called slavery. Its a duty if she wants to do. According to Islam a wife is not binded to do home chores. Its the duty of the man to proide her such facilities (Servents etc). If she do this then its an extra thing for her and the man has to praise her for this.

I'll reserve my comments except for the one I read that said that the ladies should be killed for praying in a manner considered incorrect.This I feel is not in order by any standards.

I aleady replied this type of killing is not allowed in Islam.

 

[Bas_tum_Pak]

Astigfirrullah .. They should be punished. PPP is Shame for islam