Can anyone tell me why India and Pakistan don’t get along?

[Roybot]

Indians are more religious than Pakistanis... Even I had a Indian Quran teacher she was very religious and kept stressing for a Ummah. My neighborhood didnt do the hijab/burqa thing, but the Indian was always pressuring her family to wear hijab, burqa, etc... This is why we stopped letting Indian immigrants into Pakistan a few years back

Da fuq?

 

[Bang Galore]

Indians are more religious than Pakistanis... Even I had a Indian Quran teacher she was very religious and kept stressing for a Ummah. My neighborhood didnt do the hijab/burqa thing, but the Indian was always pressuring her family to wear hijab, burqa, etc... This is why we stopped letting Indian immigrants into Pakistan a few years back

It's not about being religious, it's about being governed by it to a point where people of other faiths/no faiths simply cannot make a connection to you.

 

[Icewolf]

It's not about being religious, it's about being governed by it to a point where people of other faiths/no faiths simply cannot make a connection to you.

Exactly what my Indian Quran teacher was like

 

[Bang Galore]

Exactly what my Indian Quran teacher was like

That would explain the emigration to Pakistan . Obviously they don't feel India has the right atmospherics for such people.

 

[Icewolf]

That would explain the emigration to Pakistan . Obviously they don't feel India has the right atmospherics for such people.

She moved to Pakistan because some of her family members lived here. In India there are alot of "CONDITIONS" for such people to exist (See birth of RSS, Shiv Sena, Indian Mujahideen, LTTE, and in some cases LeT)

 

[RazPaK]

How the foOk does that make you a Kashmiri then ?

Great grandmother was Kashmiri. Great Grandfather lived in Kashmir. Grandfather was also born in Kashmir. However my tribe is Arain. My grandfather's sisters live in Punjab and can still speak koshur. Even I can speak a little.


In Pakistan tribe goes to by the man. I can marry a swedish girl, but our son or daughter would still be Arain.

 

[Spring Onion]

. Name me one thing that is similar...

Pathetic Pollutitions

 

[Ticker]

I agree with Jade, it's the religious obsession that differentiates many Indians from most Pakistanis. It is quite simply the one thing that makes you chaps almost impossible to relate to for most of us. When I first came on this forum, it was partly in a desire to connect to a Pakistani equivalent of myself (in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks). In the time since then, I have been made painfully aware that such a creature for the large part, simply does not exist. Even the most "liberal" Pakistani seems to have an outlook governed, even if only partially, by religion. For those of us who are largely indifferent to such religious pulls, it's an extremely difficult proposition to come to terms with. Even for those of us who are religiously inclined, it is almost never a case of being governed by that in everyday lives. Most of the people here on this forum from India almost certainly see themselves as Indians first & their religion somewhere down the line. Most Pakistanis here seem to carry the twin positions of being Muslim & Pakistanis almost equally & sometimes seem more Muslim than anything else. When a Muslim identity is so stressed as to be the prominent identity, then it becomes impossible for non-Muslims to relate to you regardless of their own interest or lack thereof in matters religious. That relation can only be established when a point of connection can be established which would mean to approach a situation as human beings, not as religious beings. Sadly, it has become more & more difficult to see such attitudes in this forum which is one of the reasons more & more Indians, including myself have grown more cynical about any real chances to improve relations between us.

Religion is and has been an important part of India under Muslims and subsequently under the British. There is a subtle difference as to how Muslims project themselves to be Pakistani Muslims, Turkish Muslims, Egyptian Muslims and Indian Muslims etc and how the Indian Hindus project themselves to be Indians without emphasizing that they are Hindus.

Indian Hindus refer themselves to be Indic, Dharmic or the recent advent in a new controversial format called Hindutvadi. And because Indian Hindus refer and align themselves to be Indic and being Indic also means Dharmic, Hindu by default also means Indian. Whereas, Muslims of India call themselves to be Indian Muslims irrespective of being Indian first or being Muslims first.

Muslims may be Indic or Hindutvadi, but when it comes to their being Dharmic, the problem arises. Indian Hindus are not ready to accept Islam and Christianity as Dharmic religions. And therefore Muslims and Christians become outsiders, remnants of invaders or become Maleech and for many or most Indian Hindus, non-Indians. And this creates an identity crisis for Indian Muslims and Indian Christians.

And this is the difference as to how religion is projected by Pakistani Muslims and Indian Hindus.

And this also creates a problem for secular India. If Indians are Indic and Dharmic, what are Muslims and Christians who follow a non-Dharmic format.

Yes, religion is a problem in India, but only if it is not Dharmic.

 

[Bang Galore]

Religion is and has been an important part of India under Muslims and subsequently under the British. There is a subtle difference as to how Muslims project themselves to be Pakistani Muslims, Turkish Muslims, Egyptian Muslims and Indian Muslims etc and how the Indian Hindus project themselves to be Indians without emphasizing that they are Hindus.

Indian Hindus refer themselves to be Indic, Dharmic or the recent advent in a new controversial format called Hindutvadi. And because Indian Hindus refer and align themselves to be Indic and being Indic also means Dharmic, Hindu by default also means Indian. Whereas, Muslims of India call themselves to be Indian Muslims irrespective of being Indian first or being Muslims first.

Muslims may be Indic or Hindutvadi, but when it comes to their being Dharmic, the problem arises. Indian Hindus are not ready to accept Islam and Christianity as Dharmic religions. And therefore Muslims and Christians become outsiders, remnants of invaders or become Maleech and for many or most Indian Hindus, non-Indians. And this creates an identity crisis for Indian Muslims and Indian Christians.

And this is the difference as to how religion is projected by Pakistani Muslims and Indian Hindus.

And this also creates a problem for secular India. If Indians are Indic and Dharmic, what are Muslims and Christians who follow a non-Dharmic format.

Yes, religion is a problem in India, but only if it is not Dharmic.

Kind of confused of what your point is here. My post was referring to relations between Pakistanis & Indians & the importance or lack thereof of religion in making that connection.

You seem to get carried away with the internet versions of Hindus who worry about all those distinctions. While it is true that Hindus are relatively more comfortable with other religions originating in India like Buddhism, Jainism & Sikhism, that's simply because the practices of those faiths resonate with those of the Hindu religion since they are culturally similar. Having said that, there are plenty of Hindus who visit shrines of Sufi saints in India & also some Christian churches including velankanni, one of the most important Christian pilgrim spots. Specifically, in my home city of Bangalore, the church of the Infant Jesus attracts huge crowds with the majority being non- Christian. Many Hindus are comfortable in adding a portrait of Jesus to their prayer rooms without worrying unnecessarily about it. It is only the last few years where Christian missionaries have been aggressively proselytising , that many Hindus have started to move away in the face of what they perceive as deliberate insulting of their own faith. With Muslim Sufi shrines, that relationship exists though it certainly cannot, for obvious reasons exist with more hardline Muslim denominations. Your point may actually need more looking into rather than without for an answer.

 

[Contrarian]

I agree with Jade, it's the religious obsession that differentiates many Indians from most Pakistanis. It is quite simply the one thing that makes you chaps almost impossible to relate to for most of us. When I first came on this forum, it was partly in a desire to connect to a Pakistani equivalent of myself (in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks). In the time since then, I have been made painfully aware that such a creature for the large part, simply does not exist. Even the most "liberal" Pakistani seems to have an outlook governed, even if only partially, by religion. For those of us who are largely indifferent to such religious pulls, it's an extremely difficult proposition to come to terms with. Even for those of us who are religiously inclined, it is almost never a case of being governed by that in everyday lives. Most of the people here on this forum from India almost certainly see themselves as Indians first & their religion somewhere down the line. Most Pakistanis here seem to carry the twin positions of being Muslim & Pakistanis almost equally & sometimes seem more Muslim than anything else. When a Muslim identity is so stressed as to be the prominent identity, then it becomes impossible for non-Muslims to relate to you regardless of their own interest or lack thereof in matters religious. That relation can only be established when a point of connection can be established which would mean to approach a situation as human beings, not as religious beings. Sadly, it has become more & more difficult to see such attitudes in this forum which is one of the reasons more & more Indians, including myself have grown more cynical about any real chances to improve relations between us.

I agree with you completely. Pakistani's look at everything from a religious prism. To what end, i dont understand. They dont accept that other people can and are different and have to respected equally. If your view the world with religious glasses instead of humanistic ones you will always be blinkered.

 

[neutral_person]

Indians are more religious than Pakistanis... Even I had a Indian Quran teacher she was very religious and kept stressing for a Ummah. My neighborhood didnt do the hijab/burqa thing, but the Indian was always pressuring her family to wear hijab, burqa, etc... This is why we stopped letting Indian immigrants into Pakistan a few years back

To summarize, you are telling me the Pakistani Govt stopped letting Indian immigrants to Pakistan because Indian Muslims apparently showed up there and started wearing hijabs/burkhas which is apparently not acceptable in your Pakistani neighbourhood?

Man I know you Pakistanis like to fantasize, but this is some next level $hit, do let me know the name of your dealer who provides you some really high quality weed there.

 

[imperialmen]

When a Hindu dislikes a Muslim, it's mainly because of - Pakistan, partition, and Kashmir. I think without partition, Muslims and Hindus would have lived side by side peacefully and in harmony.

Most Hindus not only respect Allah, but believe in Allah(because of - 'One God, many names' philosophy of Hindus). Many visit a Muslim shrine if it's famous. I have visited many Muslim shrines.

Lol...! Our family deity is a form of Shiva.... and that deity's shrine is in a mosque! Because it seems an ancient Hindu temple was demolished and a mosque built over by the Nizams. So, Hindus of my clan, visit the mosque.... and pray to both Allah and the family deity.

 

[Ticker]

Kind of confused of what your point is here. My post was referring to relations between Pakistanis & Indians & the importance or lack thereof of religion in making that connection.

You seem to get carried away with the internet versions of Hindus who worry about all those distinctions. While it is true that Hindus are relatively more comfortable with other religions originating in India like Buddhism, Jainism & Sikhism, that's simply because the practices of those faiths resonate with those of the Hindu religion since they are culturally similar. Having said that, there are plenty of Hindus who visit shrines of Sufi saints in India & also some Christian churches including velankanni, one of the most important Christian pilgrim spots. Specifically, in my home city of Bangalore, the church of the Infant Jesus attracts huge crowds with the majority being non- Christian. Many Hindus are comfortable in adding a portrait of Jesus to their prayer rooms without worrying unnecessarily about it. It is only the last few years where Christian missionaries have been aggressively proselytising , that many Hindus have started to move away in the face of what they perceive as deliberate insulting of their own faith. With Muslim Sufi shrines, that relationship exists though it certainly cannot, for obvious reasons exist with more hardline Muslim denominations. Your point may actually need more looking into rather than without for an answer.

I am explaining things at conceptual level. The Indian Hindu's relation to defining its identity at large and with India and being Indian.

Down below the things percolate at cultural and personal levels as well. Here is Pakistan also, many Muslims visit Hindu Shrines and Christian Pirs as well for a variety of personal aspects and reasons.

This is not a problem - the conceptual aspects invigorate intellectuals, leaders and political workers and translate in to trends.

When a Hindu dislikes a Muslim, it's mainly because of - Pakistan, partition, and Kashmir. I think without partition, Muslims and Hindus would have lived side by side peacefully and in harmony.

Most Hindus not only respect Allah, but believe in Allah(because of - 'One God, many names' philosophy of Hindus). Many visit a Muslim shrine if it's famous. I have visited many Muslim shrines.

Lol...! Our family deity is a form of Shiva.... and that deity's shrine is in a mosque! Because it seems an ancient Hindu temple was demolished and a mosque built over by the Nizams. So, Hindus of my clan, visit the mosque.... and pray to both Allah and the family deity.

Which means Indian Hindu's dislike for Muslims is a perpetual factor.

 

[Bang Galore]

This is not a problem - the conceptual aspects invigorate intellectuals, leaders and political workers and translate in to trends.

If you were following "trends", you would realise that most educated Hindus, like most people in Europe & North America except for the bible belt are moving slowly but firmly into a irreligious zone. Does not mean that they will not react to deliberate affronts to their faith, especially on forums like this but will never allow religion to govern their daily life.

 

[Ticker]

I agree with you completely. Pakistani's look at everything from a religious prism. To what end, i dont understand. They dont accept that other people can and are different and have to respected equally. If your view the world with religious glasses instead of humanistic ones you will always be blinkered.

It is surprising to hear that.

Pakistani Muslims don't have a mosque in their houses, whereas almost 90% Indian Hindus would have a shrine in their house, in addition to a Mandir nearby.

Daily living and routine aspects are linked with religion by Indian Hindus and you complain about Pakistani Muslims seeing everything from a religious prism.

It is a bit difficult to fathom such statements.