Can anyone tell me why India and Pakistan don’t get along?

[Ticker]

If you were following "trends", you would realise that most educated Hindus, like most people in Europe & North America except for the Christian belt are moving slowly but firmly into a irreligious zone. Does not mean that they will not react to deliberate affronts to their faith, especially on forums like this but will never allow religion to govern their daily life.

Let me correct you here. Whereas most Americans would be religious or religion oriented, most Europeans are not. Most of the people that I know, say that though their papers indicate that they are catholics or protestants, they don't believe in God. And they are surprised at Indian Hindus and Pakistani Muslims at being so religious.

I am not talking about affronts, I am talking trends. And the trends in India are clearly indicative of the fact the Pronouncement of Dharmic, Indic and Hindutvadi aspects are driving a wedge between Indian Hindus and followers of non-Hindu religions.

 

[imperialmen]

People have a misconception of the West being irreligious......

 

[Ticker]

People have a misconception of the West being irreligious......

I don't have misconceptions.

You are mis-informed.

 

[Bang Galore]

Let me correct you here. Whereas most Americans would be religious or religion oriented, most Europeans are not.

Where's the correction, the only point I differ with is "most Americans". Americans, outside the Bible belt tend to approach religion exactly as most educated Hindus do; something to do with your family during festival time but not taking it seriously otherwise. West Europeans are more contemptuous of religion, again some Europeans like the Irish, the Italians , the Portuguese & the Poles are different though they are not exactly the same as the bible belt Americans.

I am not talking about affronts, I am talking trends. And the trends in India are clearly indicative of the fact the Pronouncement of Dharmic, Indic and Hindutvadi aspects are driving a wedge between Indian Hindus and followers of non-Hindu religions.

You need to brush up on your history. Hindus don't need classifications of Dharmic, Indic etc...to drive a "wedge" , a chasm already exists due to history. My point is that Indians are more likely than Pakistanis to look beyond religion & therefore not to worry themselves with the problems that religious identities invariably bring.

 

[imperialmen]

I don't have misconceptions.

You are mis-informed.

People have ridiculous misconception of the Westerners being irreligious, and Christianity being a liberal religion.

 

[Ticker]

You need to brush up on your history. Hindus don't need classifications of Dharmic, Indic etc...to drive a "wedge" , a chasm already exists due to history. My point is that Indians are more likely than Pakistanis to look beyond religion & therefore not to worry themselves with the problems that religious identities invariably bring.

The chasm that exists is not going to go away with pronouncements like Indic or Dharmic or Hidutvadi precepts - which incidentally are more pronounced and are openly visible at collective societal level in India. The second largest political party BJP, openly supports Hindutvadi, Indic and Dharmic precepts.

When you say that Indians more than Pakistanis would look beyond religion, it may only happen at personal levels. But when we talk about collective psyche and response, it is not true and I would tend to disagree with you.

People have ridiculous misconception of the Westerners being irreligious, and Christianity being a liberal religion.

I don't even have ridiculous misconceptions.

You are mis-informed.

 

[harpoon]

It is surprising to hear that.

Pakistani Muslims don't have a mosque in their houses, whereas almost 90% Indian Hindus would have a shrine in their house, in addition to a Mandir nearby.

Thats a misconception. Only well of Hindus can afford to have a place in their house set aide for the so called shrine..and at the same time well of Muslims also have a room for doing paryer in their house.

Daily living and routine aspects are linked with religion by Indian Hindus and you complain about Pakistani Muslims seeing everything from a religious prism.

It is a bit difficult to fathom such statements.

What about praying 5 times a day.

 

[Bang Galore]

The chasm that exists is not going to go away with pronouncements like Indic or Dharmic or Hidutvadi precepts - which incidentally are more pronounced and are openly visible at collective societal level in India. The second largest political party BJP, openly supports Hindutvadi, Indic and Dharmic precepts.

They are almost certainly not visible at a "a collective societal level", far from it. The fact that the BJP remains in opposition should say something, shouldn't it, though support for the BJP on the basis of the parameters under discussion would be miniscule. The BJP derives most of its support in opposition to the ruling party not on some societal agenda.

When you say that Indians more than Pakistanis would look beyond religion, it may only happen at personal levels. But when we talk about collective psyche and response, it is not true and I would tend to disagree with you.

Both on the personal level on which many fellow posters & I can personally vouch for & on a larger collective level because of the way the idea of India (present day) has been formulated, religion does not overwhelm us the way it does you guys.

 

[Vinod2070]

religion does not overwhelm us the way it does you guys.

It would appear to be self evident.

Pakistan is a state created on the basis of Islam.

India is a state based on nationalism of its people. Religion is a private matter for us though its an important part of our culture, history and identity.

 

[imperialmen]

I don't even have ridiculous misconceptions.

You are mis-informed.

You misread. I didn't say 'Ticker has misconceptions'. I said 'people'. Means the general public. Stress is on the word 'general' here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

They are almost certainly not visible at a "a collective societal level", far from it. The fact that the BJP remains in opposition should say something, shouldn't it, though support for the BJP on the basis of the parameters under discussion would be miniscule. The BJP derives most of its support in opposition to the ruling party not on some societal agenda.

Both on the personal level on which many fellow posters & I can personally vouch for & on a larger collective level because of the way the idea of India (present day) has been formulated, religion does not overwhelm us the way it does you guys.

In fact, this whole idea of a religious community having a collective position is highly suspect, not only when it is politically correct to say so, as in the case of Muslims,but also in the case of Hindus.

 

[Dubious]

In India, religion doesn’t take centre stage in person’s life. There are more important things that come before religion. For example: we are Indians first then Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims. There lies the difference on how an Indian and Pakistani think.

Nobody in India says Pakistanis cannot claim IVC. The problem is when Pakistani claim exclusive rights over IVC. As regarding your assertion on India and Hinduism at the time of IVC, you cannot be more wrong. The name India and Hinduism themselves were derived from the river Indus. The genesis of Hinduism can be directly traced to IVC.

Apologetics Press - The Ancient Origins of Hinduism

THAT itself is the main reason for partiontioning of India and Pakistan...We take Islam seriously and above us...But that is just us

 

[ajtr]

THAT itself is the main reason for partiontioning of India and Pakistan...We take Islam seriously and above us...But that is just us

No we dont take Islam seriously thats why ummah is fragmented and muslims killing muslims.

 

[Ticker]

Thats a misconception. Only well of Hindus can afford to have a place in their house set aide for the so called shrine..and at the same time well of Muslims also have a room for doing paryer in their house.

This is a first for me.

What about praying 5 times a day.

So. Whats your problem with it.

Are they asking you to pray five times a day like the Muslims students are being asked to sing Hindu religious rhymes in Indian schools.

They are almost certainly not visible at a "a collective societal level", far from it. The fact that the BJP remains in opposition should say something, shouldn't it, though support for the BJP on the basis of the parameters under discussion would be miniscule. The BJP derives most of its support in opposition to the ruling party not on some societal agenda.



Both on the personal level on which many fellow posters & I can personally vouch for & on a larger collective level because of the way the idea of India (present day) has been formulated, religion does not overwhelm us the way it does you guys.

I am sorry. What I see almost daily on Indian news channels and in Indian newspapers - even local papers, it defies what you indicate.

I have to disagree here.

 

[saiyan0321]

we are still talking about it this thread might just break recordsPP