What's new

Osama Dead. Obama Confirms.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Official reports say four helicopters were involved in the operation, without mention of any support equipment. This was a militarized border violation on a highly armed and alert nation, I find it very hard to believe that no additional aerial units were in play, especially without having weaponized aircraft flying with the convoy. The United States already has E-2 and E-3 AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control Systems) in the region. Seeing as the special forces had time to perform their mission without being engaged by Pakistani forces (located well within range to intercept), border radar must not have seen the formation illegally entering their airspace. Even using known levels of stealth technology, this likely required radar deception or jamming – most probably provided by an EA-6B or EA-18G flying in the Afghan airspace.

It doesn't matter when they were detected. The blogger heard the choppers before the actual raid began. The point is the Pakistan military did not intervene. Deliberately. This is not some remote village; this is almost the heart of the Pakistan military.
 
Osama Bin Laden killed in Abbotabad near Islamabad of Pakistan


ISLAMABAD, May 2 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani Urdu TV channel Geo News quoted Pakistani intelligence officials as saying that the world's most wanted terrorist Osama Bin Laden was killed in a search operation launched by the Pakistani forces after a Pakistani army helicopter was shot down in the wee hours of Monday in Abbotabad, a mountainous town located some 60 kilometers north of Pakistan's capital city of Islamabad.

At about 1:20 a.m. local time a Pakistani helicopter was shot down by unknown people in the Sikandarabad area of Abbotabad. The Pakistani forces launched a search operation in the nearby area and encountered with a group of unknown armed people. A fire exchange followed between the two sides.

When the fire exchange ended, the Pakistani forces arrested some Arab women and kids as well some other armed people who later confessed to the Pakistani forces they were with Osama Bin laden when the fire was exchanged and Bin Laden was killed in the firing.

Local media reported that after the dead body of Bin Laden was recovered, two U.S. helicopter flew to the site and carried away the dead body of Bin Laden.

Initial reports said that at least one was killed and two others were injured in the crash. At least two houses were engulfed by the huge fire caused by the crashed chopper.

Rescue team rushed to the site shortly after the crash was reported and the armed forces cordoned off the area and launched a search operation there.

Sources of Xinhua said they tried to enter the area after the incident took place, but no media people were allowed inside.

"No one knows in that helicopter crash Bin Laden was killed," said the sources.



Editor: Yang Lina


the FIR.. The Myth.. The confusion..

:rofl::rofl: what would we do without the fair and balanced Chinese media!
 
It doesn't matter when they were detected. The blogger heard the choppers before the actual raid began. The point is the Pakistan military did not intervene. Deliberately. This is not some remote village; this is almost the heart of the Pakistan military.

The evidence can only conclude the delay as inefficiency of the army and not the will of no intervention. Afterall they admitted to have scrambled jets later. And of course, there is too much logic and plainspeaking in public domain about this by now. That line of argument stopped holding by 2nd May evening!
 
Why was Osama being kept in Pakistan and why would he choose this place?

It can be answered in two angles : Strategic and Operational.

It was OBL who was the ideological mentor to Taliban and Mullah O and it was his inherited Billions which funded the rise of Taliban in 1995-7.
Strategically Pakistani establishment views custody of OBL as a key to influence Mullah Omer to do its bidding after the reestablishment of Islamic emirate of Afghanistan post American withdrawal.

Adittionally,there is the danger of OBL being captured revealing the full extent and nature of his relations with ISI during 9/11. So the establishment wanted OBL to be firmly hidden out of sight and out of reach ala A.Q.Khan, till the American adventure in A f - P A K draws down.

Regarding the small issue of OBL's involvement in 9/11 and the need for justice for the 3000 dead ... I guess ISI thinks it is America's problem and shouldn't come between Pak and its dreams of "Strategic Depth" in Afghanistan and beyond.

Regarding the Operational reasons: The fact of OBL to be located adjacent to a serving Major's house, in a locality housing retired Generals and Brass of GHQ , in a safe-house with a two layered 12-18 feet walled perimeter with surveillance cameras at entrances and with a winding two gated entrance in addition to the continuous rounds of military jeep through out the day coupled with ISI checking ID of anyone moving in the area after sunset ------ is all self revealing that ISI wanted him to be located in a secure area away from prying eyes and with few chances of him being spirited away (its another matter that they failed spectacularly :rofl:) .

_52455064_52455063.jpg

_52476667_jex_1035119_de25-1.jpg



This BBC video talks about OBL's safehouse and ISI checking ID of supicious people moving in the location.
 
How DNA analysis confirmed Osama bin Laden's death


Though the world's most wanted man Osama bin Laden was killed during a raid on a compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, on 2 May, his body was identified after a series of investigation.

According to the US government, his death was confirmed by comparison to photographs, confirmation from one of his wives at the compound, facial-recognition software, and - the gold standard for identification - DNA analysis, reports New Scientist.

John Brennan, assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, said the DNA evidence provided a match with "99.9% confidence".

That would require the comparison of DNA from the body with that of people known to be related to bin Laden. Bin Laden had no full siblings, but more than 50 half-siblings and up to 24 children.

Using DNA from many half-siblings could produce a DNA match of greater than 90% confidence, but it would be difficult to get as high as 99.9% without a closer relative said Rhonda Roby, a forensic geneticist at the University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth.

Roby, who led the team using DNA evidence to identify the remains of people killed in the 9/11 attacks in 2001, said that the statistical analysis based on DNA from half-siblings is more complex and less reliable than analysis based on DNA from a closer relative like a parent or child.

Reports indicated that one of bin Laden's sons was also killed in the raid, possibly 20-year-old Hamza bin Laden.

Roby said DNA from a son and several half-siblings could confirm Osama's identity with 99.9% accuracy.

If, however, the government was able to obtain DNA from bin Laden's body, his son and also that son's biological mother - who might have been at the compound during the raid, it could perform DNA profiling with a "full paternity trio", assuring 99.9% accuracy, she added.


http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_how-dna-analysis-confirmed-osama-bin-laden-s-death_1539320
 
It doesn't matter when they were detected. The blogger heard the choppers before the actual raid began. The point is the Pakistan military did not intervene. Deliberately. This is not some remote village; this is almost the heart of the Pakistan military.

"US helicopters entered Pakistani airspace making use of blind spots in the radar coverage due to hilly terrain. US helicopters' undetected flight into Pakistan was also facilitated by the mountainous terrain, efficacious use of latest technology and 'nap of the earth' flying techniques. It may not be realistic to draw an analogy between this undefended civilian area and some military / security installations which have elaborate local defence arrangements,"
The Pak Foreign Office said in a statement.

You have never detected their presence. Please update yourself to latest news buddy!
 
Osama Bin Laden killed in Abbotabad near Islamabad of Pakistan


ISLAMABAD, May 2 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani Urdu TV channel Geo News quoted Pakistani intelligence officials as saying that the world's most wanted terrorist Osama Bin Laden was killed in a search operation launched by the Pakistani forces after a Pakistani army helicopter was shot down in the wee hours of Monday in Abbotabad, a mountainous town located some 60 kilometers north of Pakistan's capital city of Islamabad.

At about 1:20 a.m. local time a Pakistani helicopter was shot down by unknown people in the Sikandarabad area of Abbotabad. The Pakistani forces launched a search operation in the nearby area and encountered with a group of unknown armed people. A fire exchange followed between the two sides.

When the fire exchange ended, the Pakistani forces arrested some Arab women and kids as well some other armed people who later confessed to the Pakistani forces they were with Osama Bin laden when the fire was exchanged and Bin Laden was killed in the firing.

Local media reported that after the dead body of Bin Laden was recovered, two U.S. helicopter flew to the site and carried away the dead body of Bin Laden.

Initial reports said that at least one was killed and two others were injured in the crash. At least two houses were engulfed by the huge fire caused by the crashed chopper.

Rescue team rushed to the site shortly after the crash was reported and the armed forces cordoned off the area and launched a search operation there.

Sources of Xinhua said they tried to enter the area after the incident took place, but no media people were allowed inside.

"No one knows in that helicopter crash Bin Laden was killed," said the sources.




Editor: Yang Lina


the FIR.. The Myth.. The confusion..

This is from XinHua??? I will be damned.
 
Notes on the Death of Osama bin Laden
Steve Coll


compound.jpg


No doubt there will be time to reflect more deeply about the news announced by President Obama last night. For now, I thought it might be useful to annotate some of the initial headlines.

On where he was found:

Abbottabad is essentially a military-cantonment city in Pakistan, in the hills to the north of the capital of Islamabad, in an area where much of the land is controlled or owned by the Pakistani Army and retired Army officers. Although the city is technically in what used to be called the Northwest Frontier Province, it lies on the far eastern side of the province and is as close to Pakistani-held Kashmir as it is to the border city of Peshawar. The city is most notable for housing the Pakistan Military Academy, the Pakistani Army’s premier training college, equivalent to West Point. Looking at maps and satellite photos on the Web last night, I saw the wide expanse of the Academy not far from where the million-dollar, heavily secured mansion where bin Laden lived was constructed in 2005. The maps I looked at had sections of land nearby marked off as “restricted areas,” indicating that they were under military control. It stretches credulity to think that a mansion of that scale could have been built and occupied by bin Laden for six years without its coming to the attention of anyone in the Pakistani Army.


The initial circumstantial evidence suggests that the opposite is more likely—that bin Laden was effectively being housed under Pakistani state control. Pakistan will deny this, it seems safe to predict, and perhaps no convincing evidence will ever surface to prove the case. If I were a prosecutor at the United States Department of Justice, however, I would be tempted to call a grand jury. Who owned the land on which the house was constructed? How was the land acquired, and from whom? Who designed the house, which seems to have been purpose-built to secure bin Laden? Who was the general contractor? Who installed the security systems? Who worked there? Are there witnesses who will now testify as to who visited the house, how often, and for what purpose? These questions are not relevant only to the full realization of justice for the victims of September 11th. They are also relevant to the victims of terrorist attacks conducted or inspired by bin Laden while he lived in the house, and these include many Pakistanis, as well as Afghans, Indians, Jordanians, and Britons. They are rightly subjects of American criminal law.


Outside the Justice Department, other sections of the United States government will probably underplay any evidence of culpability by the Pakistani state or sections of the state, such as its intelligence service, I.S.I., in sheltering bin Laden. As ever, there are many other fish to fry in Islamabad and at the Army headquarters, in nearby Rawalpindi: an exit strategy from Afghanistan, which requires the greatest possible degree of coöperation from Pakistan that can be attained at a reasonable price; nuclear stability; and so on.


Pakistan’s military and intelligence service takes risks that others would not dare take because Pakistan’s generals believe that their nuclear deterrent keeps them safe from regime change of the sort under way in Libya, and because they have discovered over the years that the rest of the world sees them as too big to fail. Unfortunately, they probably are correct in their analysis; some countries, like some investment banks, do pose systemic risks so great that they are too big to fail, and Pakistan is currently the A.I.G. of nation-states. But that should not stop American prosecutors from following the law here as they would whenever any mass killer’s hideout is discovered.


Of course, Mullah Omar and Al Qaeda’s No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, probably also enjoy refuge in Pakistan. The location of Mullah Omar, in particular, is believed by American officials to be well known to some Pakistani military and intelligence officers; Omar, too, they believe, is effectively under Pakistani state control. Perhaps the circumstantial evidence in the bin Laden case is misleading; only a transparent, thorough investigation by Pakistani authorities into how such a fugitive could have lived so long under the military’s nose without detection would establish otherwise. That sort of transparent investigation is unlikely to take place.

On who was living with Bin Laden:



The early reports suggest that he was living with his “youngest wife.” Bin Laden, who was fifty-three years old when he died, had always lived surrounded by family and children, so it is not surprising that he had managed to do so even as a fugitive. He is known to have married at least four times. His first wife was a cousin from Syria. His second and third wives were highly educated Saudi women. His fourth wife was a kind of mail-order teen-age bride from Yemen, whom he married while living in Afghanistan during the nineteen-nineties, according to the account of bin Laden’s former Yemeni bodyguard. Bin Laden’s Syrian and Saudi wives were said to have gone home before or immediately after the September 11th attacks, and the Saudi wives were said to be living in the kingdom, without contact with Osama. When I visited Yemen in 2007, to conduct research on the bin Laden family, Yemeni journalists told me that his youngest wife had returned home and was living in the region either of Tai’zz or of Ibb, significant cities to the south of Sanaa, the capital. It seems that she may have found her way to Pakistan to live with her husband. My own guess had been that bin Laden would have accepted informal divorce from his older wives on the ground of involuntary separation, and would have remarried a local woman or two while in hiding in Pakistan, perhaps a daughter presented by one of his Pathan hosts. That is at least conceivable as well. Apparently, one of his adult sons was killed in the raid. Osama has more than a dozen sons. Some have returned to Saudi Arabia, but others have appeared in videos with their father, vowing to fight alongside him. It is conceivable that one of his sons could make a claim on Al Qaeda leadership in the years ahead.


On what bin Laden’s death means for Al Qaeda:


On the constructive side: The loss of a symbolic, semi-charismatic leader whose own survival burnished his legend is significant. Also, Al Qaeda has never had a leadership succession test. Now it faces one. The organization was founded more than twenty years ago, in the summer of 1988, and at the initial sessions bin Laden was appointed amir and Ayman al-Zawahiri deputy amir. It is remarkable that, for all the No. 3s who have been killed, and for all the ways in which it has been degraded since September 11th, Al Qaeda had retained the same two leaders, continuously, for so long. Zawahiri is famously disputatious and tone-deaf. His relatively recent online “chat” taking questions about Al Qaeda’s violence did not go well. Bin Laden was a gentle and strong communicator, if somewhat incoherent in his thinking. Zawahiri is dogmatic and argumentative, and has a history of alienating colleagues.

On the other hand: Al Qaeda is more than just a centralized organization based in Pakistan. It is also a network of franchised or like-minded organizations, and an ideological movement in which followers sometimes act in isolation from leaders. The best guesstimates are that Al Qaeda has several hundred serious members or adherents in Pakistan, along the Pakistan side of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, and perhaps up to a hundred scattered around Afghanistan. Just last week, the German government disrupted a cell near Dusseldorf in which one of the members, of Moroccan origin, had allegedly travelled to the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, where he received explosives training from an Al Qaeda contact. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, based in Yemen, appears to be just as potent. Dan Benjamin, the State Department counterterrorism coördinator, gave a speech last week at New America that provided a very good, up-to-date summary of Al Qaeda and its affiliates worldwide, their capabilities and connections to one another.

On the hunt itself:



After President Obama took office, he and the new Central Intelligence Agency director, Leon Panetta, reorganized the team of analysts devoted to finding Osama bin Laden. The team worked out of ground-floor offices at the Langley headquarters. There were at least two-dozen of them. Some were older analysts who had been part of the C.I.A.’s various bin Laden-hunting efforts going back to the late nineteen-nineties. Others were newer recruits, too young to have been professionally active when bin Laden was first indicted as a fugitive from American justice.

As they reset their work, the analysts studied other long-term international fugitive hunts that had ended successfully, such as the operations that led to the death of the Medellín Cartel leader Pablo Escobar, in 1993. The analysts asked, Where did the breakthroughs in these other hunts come from? What were the clues that made the difference and how were the clues discovered? They tried to identify “signatures” of Osama bin Laden’s life style that might lead to such a clue: prescription medications that he might purchase, hobbies or other habits of shopping or movement that might give him away.
The Langley analysts were one headquarters egghead element of the hunt. Similar analytical units, at Central Command, in Tampa, and at the International Security Assistance Force, in Kabul, sorted battlefield and all-source intelligence, designated subjects for additional collection, and conducted pattern analysis of relationships among terrorists, couriers, and raw data collected in the field. Detainee operators in Iraq, in Afghanistan, at Guantanámo, and at secret C.I.A. sites also participated. Apparently, the breakthrough started several years back from detainee interrogations; it’s not clear yet how or by what means the information about the courier who led to the Abbottabad compound was extracted.

Overseas, C.I.A. officers in the Directorate of Operations and the Special Activities Division—intelligence officers who ran sources and collected information, as well as armed paramilitaries—carried out the search for informants from bases in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Units from the military’s Joint Special Operations Command, which includes the Navy Seals, Delta, and other specialized groups, joined in. Often, Special Operations and the C.I.A. worked in blended task-force teams deployed around Afghanistan, and, more problematically, as the Raymond Davis case indicated, around Pakistan.

These teams searched not only for bin Laden but also for other “high-value targets,” as they are legally and bureaucratically known inside the U.S. government. My understanding is that, as of this spring, there were approximately forty legally designated, fugitive high-value targets at the top of the wanted-list system. If there were forty, I suppose there are now thirty-nine.


Read more News Desk: Notes on the Death of Osama bin Laden : The New Yorker
 
"US helicopters entered Pakistani airspace making use of blind spots in the radar coverage due to hilly terrain. US helicopters' undetected flight into Pakistan was also facilitated by the mountainous terrain, efficacious use of latest technology and 'nap of the earth' flying techniques. It may not be realistic to draw an analogy between this undefended civilian area and some military / security installations which have elaborate local defence arrangements,"
The Pak Foreign Office said in a statement.

You have never detected their presence. Please update yourself to latest news buddy!

Pakistani authorities never knew of this raid, yet they managed to cordon off the area and shut-off the power during the raid.

Funny, ain't it?
 
Pakistani authorities never knew of this raid, yet they managed to cordon off the area and shut-off the power during the raid.

Funny, ain't it?

Not really.

It has become clear now that the Pakistani forces reached the spot only after the operation was over.
 
Okay.. now i have questions.. and a lot of them..

1. Were there 2 choppers or 4?
2. Was one of the choppers shot down or did it landed on "technical problem" basis?
3. Was Osama armed or unarmed?
4. If he was unarmed, why was he not captured alive?
5. If Radars were jammed, why were choppers flying a LOW level flight? what was its need?
6. Was Osama's wife killed or was she injured?
7. How was it possible, that even if "jammers" were used, AFTER the action was taken the choppers were allowed to go back?
8. Why was Osama's body disposed off in a hurry?.. i mean they were chasing him for a decade?
9. Why is building a BIG house (which is a norm in Pakistan) a proof of Osama's living place? (if you go to northern areas, you'll find thousands of such houses)
10. Why is ISI's not knowing a BIG problem when it was CIA's blunder in intelligence in first place which allowed them to carry out 9/11.
11. Why are there so many discripencies in US announcements when they were WATCHING (apparently, though those are just pictures where some people are looking towards one side, they might be watching a baseball game, who knows?)

These are just few questions in a list of hundreds which need to be answered..

Oh.. hold on.. i am not suppose to ask them.. cuz then i am "making conspiracy theories" right??.. i am just suppose to "accept" everything cuz its in "American written bible" and i have to accept it b'coz of faith..

But sorry.. as i have said many times before.. some of us do use the thing called "brain"..

I don't care if Osama is dead or alive.. all i care is.. BRING OUT THE PROOF!!.. not word of some tom dick and harry.. (and that include OBAMA, CLINTON and rest)
 
ISI caught lying through their teeth.
There was no compound to raid in 2003, as shown clearly below.

- The ISI guy was speaking from memory, so 2003 or 2004 is the right timeframe.
- The photo from 2004 doesn't mean it was taken in 2004, only that it was posted in 2004 and taken some time before.

Adittionally,there is the danger of OBL being captured revealing the full extent and nature of his relations with ISI during 9/11. So the establishment wanted OBL to be firmly hidden out of sight and out of reach ala A.Q.Khan, till the American adventure in draws down.

Don't forget the Roswell aliens. Bin Laden's hard drive also contains evidence about the Roswell aliens.
 
Okay.. now i have questions.. and a lot of them..

1. Were there 2 choppers or 4?

Don't know

2. Was one of the choppers shot down or did it landed on "technical problem" basis?

Shot down from inside the compound.

3. Was Osama armed or unarmed?

Unclear.

4. If he was unarmed, why was he not captured alive?

Because it justy doesn't make sense to capture such a high value target alive for fear of terrorist attacks, hijackings etc.

5. If Radars were jammed, why were choppers flying a LOW level flight? what was its need?

Unclear.

6. Was Osama's wife killed or was she injured?

Injured.

7. How was it possible, that even if "jammers" were used, AFTER the action was taken the choppers were allowed to go back?

Quite possible that jammers were used on the way out as well.

8. Why was Osama's body disposed off in a hurry?.. i mean they were chasing him for a decade?

So you wanted them to build a temple in honour?

9. Why is building a BIG house (which is a norm in Pakistan) a proof of Osama's living place? (if you go to northern areas, you'll find thousands of such houses)

It was a big house in that area. Heavily fortified. Surprising how it missed ISI assuming that it did.

10. Why is ISI's not knowing a BIG problem when it was CIA's blunder in intelligence in first place which allowed them to carry out 9/11.

That's a silly question.

11. Why are there so many discripencies in US announcements when they were WATCHING (apparently, though those are just pictures where some people are looking towards one side, they might be watching a baseball game, who knows?)

It's clear. There are different opinions on how to deal with Pakistan on this one in the US.
 
Most people are not realizing that the ISI is probably the biggest winner in this incident, this was the US exit strategy from Afghanistan & they've started packing up already. If I were India, I'd be very worried. This could get very ugly for India in Afghanistan as well as Kashmir.

If I were Pakisthan, we would be busy saving our face from the collective fingerpointing of the World.

Its funny that that your country is in shambles and now left red faced by the OBL operation, but all you can think about is the grand strategic vision of "Strategic Depth" in Afghanisthan and looking for the next fight with India. With this type of attitude only God can save Pakistan.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom