Osama Wasn't Running Al Qaida from Abbottabad

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Are you saying that Al Qaeda would not have done such a thing on 9/11? That they were not fighting for Muslim freedom? That there are no insurgents or terrorists because of American policies? Please do not insult the memories of the hijackers who crash the planes for your freedom.

Stop trolling and flaming.

My post was clear - attempting to disparage me by painting me as supportive of the 9/11 attacks (carried out by whomever) will get you banned.

If you cannot engage in discourse with civility and cannot offer a rational response, don't waste our time here.

Now, you can try responding to my post again, or get lost.

 

[Oldman1]

In Pakistan at least, the increased violence after the US invasion of Afghanistan and the resulting economic losses and instability, have only hardened public sentiment against the US.

The revolutions in the ME have little to do with what the US or OBL have done - they are related first and foremost to the desire of people to improve their living conditions and have a say in how they are governed.

The major factors in these 'revolutions' are technology and a youthful and vocal populace that is tech-savy enough to utilize the available technology for spreading its message and building support and momentum.

Exactly! Osama Bin Laden was probably crying when things didn't go exactly the way he wanted in the ME. He has for many decades try to overthrow the govts. but the people didn't listen. And when they did it wasn't a religious related. Al Qaeda has used the internet and videos to help start a so called Islamic revolution but it didn't work.

 

[U-571]

More support for the argument that the US raid to kill OBL was illegal.

Some have argued 'self-defence' to justify the unilateral and unauthorized military action by the US in Pakistan, but, as I argued a couple of weeks ago, there was simply no evidence that OBL was in any way involved in the 'Command and Control' of Al Qaeda, nor any evidence that he was in any way a key Al Qaeda 'Tactician or planner'.

OBL was on the run and in hiding - he was not attending 'fund raisers' to raise money for the organization, he was not leading the organization (AQ has been decentralized for a long time) and he was not 'plotting brilliant new terrorist attacks'.

There is therefore no justification for the 'self-defence' argument since there was no 'imminent threat' to the US or its assets from OBL. The US raid on Abbottabda was therefore completely illegal.

agnostic, i didnt expect you to believe osama was in the hiding in abbottabad

 

[Oldman1]

Stop trolling and flaming.

My post was clear - attempting to disparage me by painting me as supportive of the 9/11 attacks (carried out by whomever) will get you banned.

If you cannot engage in discourse with civility and cannot offer a rational response, don't waste our time here.

Now, you can try responding to my post again, or get lost.

Don't accuse me of trolling and flaming because I know exactly what I am talking about. You claim that Muslims in general don't believe the official story which was MUSLIM hijackers that did it and I tell you exactly why MUSLIM hijackers did it. If you can't respond to it, ignore it its that simple. I don't call you names and I don't get angry about it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Don't accuse me of trolling and flaming because I know exactly what I am talking about. You claim that Muslims in general don't believe the official story which was MUSLIM hijackers that did it and I tell you exactly why MUSLIM hijackers did it. If you can't respond to it, ignore it its that simple. I don't call you names and I don't get angry about it.

You are calling me names by attributing your twisted views about Muslims to me.

You can tell me whatever you wish to about why YOU think Muslim hijackers perpetrated 9/11, but that is not a response to my post nor is it in any way related to the point I was making.

Let me explain it again. What you believe about the 9/11 attacks is irrelevant - the point is that a significant amount of the Muslim world does not believe the 'official explanation', and their disbelief is strengthened because of US lies over Iraqi WMD's and the launching of a war and invasion on the basis of those lies, and their disbelief is strengthened when they see (as in the case of Pakistan) violence, terrorism and extremism skyrocketing AFTER US invasions to supposedly 'combat terrorism and extremism'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Exactly! Osama Bin Laden was probably crying when things didn't go exactly the way he wanted in the ME. He has for many decades try to overthrow the govts. but the people didn't listen. And when they did it wasn't a religious related. Al Qaeda has used the internet and videos to help start a so called Islamic revolution but it didn't work.

We really don't know which way the Arab revolutions will spin - we could still end up with theocratic regimes in those countries.

 

[S.M.R]

Don't accuse me of trolling and flaming because I know exactly what I am talking about. You claim that Muslims in general don't believe the official story which was MUSLIM hijackers that did it and I tell you exactly why MUSLIM hijackers did it. If you can't respond to it, ignore it its that simple. I don't call you names and I don't get angry about it.

Heloooooooo; were they MUSLIMS who proved that the 9/11 was an inside job? Just have a research who was the first one who bursted the baloon of 9/11.

On topic:
They way this ghost (OBL) kept hiding from US and thereafter vaporised killing and other similar questions will remain unanswered.

The question is how could he managed to run a ghost organization without any coomication equipment.

 

[JayAtl]

so all the documentation showing he was very active , all the documentation showing he had links with ISI, all the treasure trove of information showing ( as published several times )- all his videos , transcripts, audio messages for the past decade was a CIA plot? .. okaiedookie..

 

[gubbi]

Osama wasn't running al Qaida from Abbottabad: officials
Updated at: 0347 PST, Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Osama wasn ABBOTTABAD: Osama bin Laden was out of touch with the younger generation of al-Qaida commanders, and they often didn't follow his advice during the years he was in hiding in Abbottabad, US and Pakistani officials say.

According to the American newspaper, Contradicting the assertions of some American officials that bin Laden was running a "command and control" center from the walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, officials say that bin Laden clearly wasn't in control of al Qaida, though he was trying to remain involved or at least influential.

"He was like the cranky old uncle that people weren't listening to," said a US official, who'd been briefed on the evidence collected from the Abbottabad compound and who spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. "The younger guys had never worked directly with him. They did not take everything he said as right."

One new detail, discovered by US newspaper, is that the bin Laden household was buying and selling gold jewelry, perhaps as a way to raise money. Another is that for a household that included at least nine women and twice that many children, its consumption of electricity and gas was far less than that of neighboring households, a sign either of bin Laden's legendary frugality or an indication that the terrorist leader simply had run out of money and was living as cheaply as he could.

This is pure good quality horse manure.

Sources.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

so all the documentation showing he was very active , all the documentation showing he had links with ISI, all the treasure trove of information showing ( as published several times )- all his videos , transcripts, audio messages for the past decade was a CIA plot? .. okaiedookie..

What 'documents' show that OBL had links to the ISI, and was 'very active'?

Can you point to one single plot after the 9/11 attacks, that OBL financed, masterminded, trained others to perpetrate, organized?

Heck, OBL had very little to do from the operational aspect with the 9/11 attacks. He was not the main 'intellectual force' behind them. What he offered AQ was mostly his personality, and initially his money. Once he was on the run and his finances seized/frozen, the only use AQ, as an organization, had for him was as a 'figure head'.

 

[lem34]

Actually the economy is in recession because banks made bad loans to people who couldn't afford the house. Not about the wars. We still haven't paid off World War 1! I don't think Osama wanted something like this because hundreds of thousands of people mostly Muslims are dead. Not to mention he is being shrugged off by people he doesn't know. He would definitely disagree with you. Revolutions going on in the ME is not following exactly what he wants. No Islamic Caliphate.

I do know how the system works. I live in the UK and worked for several years in corporate banking etc. It is correct that bankers helped the western economy to have a systemic failure your leaders words not mine. However there can be no denying that billions and trillions have been spent on wars. Your leaders obama and various europeans have categorically stated that cutbacks in defence will have to be made. You know like I said I did have sympathy that what obama did was wrong. Killing innocent people must be condemnd. However killing is wrong whether its osama killing or obama killing. What has turned me to be critical of us policy is people like you and your government when you live in denial open your eyes you have never had so many unemployed and on food stamps. How many of need to be unemployed and starving before you realise that your response has been disproportionate. I was talking in general terms when I suggested that Osama was trying to destroy your economy. Why and how can you deny that american economic system was a target of Osama. Sept 11 was not the first time the twin towers were attacked. The symbolism that the twin towers represented american "free markets is obvious" and you tell us we are in denial?

 

[lem34]

Simple american government and its supporters are liars. Is that really a complicated concept to understand.

 

[JayAtl]

What 'documents' show that OBL had links to the ISI, and was 'very active'?

Can you point to one single plot after the 9/11 attacks, that OBL financed, masterminded, trained others to perpetrate, organized?

Heck, OBL had very little to do from the operational aspect with the 9/11 attacks. He was not the main 'intellectual force' behind them. What he offered AQ was mostly his personality, and initially his money. Once he was on the run and his finances seized/frozen, the only use AQ, as an organization, had for him was as a 'figure head'.

Let's understand your premise- other than 911 was an inside job . You are trying to push the meme that OBL was a retired old man after 911. this stance is not based on reality...

ISI connection
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/world/asia/24pakistan.html?_r=2&emc=na

documents show what Osama was plotting..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06intel.html ( the videos they found in his own house- perhaps he was doing those because some modeling agency contacted him )
\
Videos demystify the Osama bin Laden legend - CBS News

2007 Video of him claiming more attacks and plots
********.com - 3-minutes of the new Bin Laden video

OSAMA- Jan 2010 takes credit for christmas day bomber
Bin Laden Airlines | Bin Laden claims airline bombing plot; officials express skepticism - Los Angeles Times

Remember Iraq and Osama anointing Zakaqawi as the AQ in iraq leader?

Factfile: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi | Mail Online

Osama claims Nigeria bomb plot, warns of fresh attacks
http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/121/article_6638.asp

I can go on and on and on showing his many videos, transcripts released post 911 claimng attacks , threating new attacks etc etc.

List of attacks AQ has taken official credit of:

Contents [hide]
1 Early 1990s
1.1 February 1993 World Trade Center
1.2 1994 Bojinka, Philippine Airlines Flight 434
2 1998 U.S.-embassy bombings
3 2000 USS Cole bombing
4 September 11, 2001, attacks
5 October 2002 Bali bombings
6 November 2003 Istanbul attacks
7 February 2004 SuperFerry 14 bombing
8 March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings
9 May 2004 Khobar massacre
10 July 7, 2005 London transport bombings
11 July 23, 2005 Sharm el-Sheikh attacks
12 November 9, 2005 Amman hotel bombing
13 April 2007 Algiers bombings
14 February 2008 Kandahar bombing
15 June 2, 2008 Danish-embassy bombing
16 June 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting
17 December 2009 Northwest Airlines Flight 253
18 Dec 30, 2009 Khost Suicide Bomber
19 October 2010 cargo plane bomb plot
20 Iraq attacks
20.1 August 2003 Imam Ali Mosque bombing
20.2 February 2004 Irbil bombings
20.3 March 2004 Iraq Ashura bombings
20.4 April 2004 Basra bombings
20.5 July 2005 Musayyib bombing
20.6 September 2005 Baghdad bombings
20.7 November 2005 Khanaqin bombings
20.8 April 2006 Buratha Mosque bombing
20.9 November 2006 Sadr City, Iraq bombings
20.10 February 2007 Baghdad market bombing
20.11 March 2007 Tal Afar bombings
20.12 April 2007 Baghdad Iraq bombings
20.13 August 14, 2007 Yazidi community Iraq bombing
20.14 August 2009 Baghdad bombings
20.15 October 2009 Baghdad bombings
20.16 April 2010 Baghdad bombings
20.17 May 2010 Iraq attacks
20.18 November 2010
20.19 January 2011 Iraq suicide attacks

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Let's understand your premise- other than 911 was an inside job . You are trying to push the meme that OBL was a retired old man after 911. this stance is not based on reality...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/world/asia/24pakistan.html?_r=2&emc=na ISI connection

Where is the ISI connection? Please refer to the relevant thread on this particular topic. This is a very, very circumstantial and indirect connection, at best. Remember that OBL detested using cell phones or any other form of electronic communication, per US officials themselves, which is why tracking him down was so hard. So how come now he is having 'conference calls' with XYZ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06intel.html --- documents show what Osama was plotting..

He could plot all the hair-brained schemes he wanted, but there is nothing to suggest that he was the intellectual, tactical or organizational guiding force behind any terrorist attack post 9/11.

Videos demystify the Osama bin Laden legend - CBS News ( the videos they found in his own house- perhaps he was doing those because some modeling agency contacted him )

2007 Video of him ********.com - 3-minutes of the new Bin Laden video

What about those videos? What do they prove in terms of OBL running AQ and/or providing tactical, financial and operational leadership?

Bin Laden Airlines | Bin Laden claims airline bombing plot; officials express skepticism - Los Angeles Times OSAMA- Jan 2010 takes credit for christmas day bomber

Again, OBL can claim anything he wants, just like the TTP claimed the shooting in NY - that does not mean he actually had any role in planning, training or financing it.

Remember Iraq and Osama anointing Zakari as the AQ in iraq leader?[/U] Factfile: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi | Mail Online

I remember, and you should also remember the details around Zarqawi's rise in Iraq - he used his violent tactics to gain AQ approval, AQ did not teach him his violent tactics. Zarqawi essentially sold himself to the 'Al Qaeda Franchise' after he had proved he could deliver in terms of terrorism and violence.

I can go on and on and on showing his many videos, transcripts released post 911 claimng attacks , threating new attacks etc etc.

All of which is nothing but OBL fulfilling his role as 'Al Qaeda figurehead' - none of what you have provided suggests that OBL had any role in training, organizing or financing any terrorist attack post 9/11. That means there is nothing to support the argument that he was an 'imminent threat to the US', which means that the US raid in Abottabad was unjustifiable and illegal.

List of attacks AQ has taken official credit of:

Again, none of which supports the claim of OBL having any significant intellectual, tactical, operational or financial role in those attacks.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Zawahiri (and others) are/were the brains of the AL Qaeda organization, not OBL.

 

[JayAtl]

Where is the ISI connection? Please refer to the relevant thread on this particular topic. This is a very, very circumstantial and indirect connection, at best. Remember that OBL detested using cell phones or any other form of electronic communication, per US officials themselves, which is why tracking him down was so hard. So how come now he is having 'conference calls' with XYZ?

He could plot all the hair-brained schemes he wanted, but there is nothing to suggest that he was the intellectual, tactical or organizational guiding force behind any terrorist attack post 9/11.

What about those videos? What do they prove in terms of OBL running AQ and/or providing tactical, financial and operational leadership?


Again, OBL can claim anything he wants, just like the TTP claimed the shooting in NY - that does not mean he actually had any role in planning, training or financing it.


I remember, and you should also remember the details around Zarqawi's rise in Iraq - he used his violent tactics to gain AQ approval, AQ did not teach him his violent tactics. Zarqawi essentially sold himself to the 'Al Qaeda Franchise' after he had proved he could deliver in terms of terrorism and violence.

All of which is nothing but OBL fulfilling his role as 'Al Qaeda figurehead' - none of what you have provided suggests that OBL had any role in training, organizing or financing any terrorist attack post 9/11. That means there is nothing to support the argument that he was an 'imminent threat to the US', which means that the US raid in Abottabad was unjustifiable and illegal.

Again, none of which supports the claim of OBL having any significant intellectual, tactical, operational or financial role in those attacks.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Zawahiri (and others) are/were the brains of the AL Qaeda organization, not OBL.

when the man claims in own words he is responsible as a mafia Head to issue orders to kill-- you sir would set him free in court! - we get it.

Osama " I take credit for this terrorism act"- official video , statement- audio put out

You- oh no you don't! show me your books , prove me that you are making the calls- audit is needed.

---got it- your acute knowledge of his inner sanctum to be so sure to claim your stance


I know I can't risk infractions by the powers to be- so I'll let you be in your merriment and say Khuda afiz from this thread.