Will Mars mission propel India ahead of China in space race?

[karan.1970]

You should reword. Let's see if NASA will make a launch from Pakistan?

burnol must be making millions in Pakistan since last couple of days

 

[Anees]

 

[Jade]

Another misinterpretation

Unlike in Cold war...Chinese and Indian space missions are more to do with economic goals than to do with military goals.

 

[IND151]

Regardless of who will be ahead in this space race in coming years, the important thing is winner, in any case will be an Asian Nation.

In the end that is what matters very much.

 

[IND151]

New York: The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) will boldly launch its Mars craft Mangalyaan on Tuesday afternoon from Shriharikota, the start of a 300-day, 485 million-mile journey to orbit Mars and survey its geology and atmosphere.
India’s technological ability to explore the solar system has certainly caught America’s eye.
“The mission, if successful, would be a technological leap that would propel India ahead of space rivals China and Japan in the field of interplanetary exploration,” said The Wall Street Journal ahead of the blast-off at 2:38 p.m. on Tuesday.
This is India’s first Mars mission, so be warned no country has been successful on its first try, unless India proves to be the exception. More than half the world’s attempts to reach Mars, 23 out of 40 missions, have come to naught, including missions by Japan in 1999 and China two years ago.
“Sending a spacecraft to Mars would bring India immense prestige, but we are doing this for ourselves. The main thrust of space science in India has always been people-centric, to benefit the common man and society,” said K. Radhakrishnan, chairman of ISRO
The Mars mission is expected to cost about $83 million and will give India a shot at becoming only the fourth country to reach the Red Planet, after the Soviet Union, US and Europe.
“Questions are sometimes asked about whether a poor country like India can afford a space program and whether the funds spent on space exploration, albeit modest, could be better utilized elsewhere,” said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in a speech last year.
“This misses the point that a nation’s state of development is finally a product of its technological prowess.”
Though its budget is less than one-tenth that of NASA’s, it is important to note that experts say ISRO has grown into one of the world’s top six space programs since its inception.
Geoffrey Pyatt, principal deputy assistant secretary for South Asia said at a meeting of the US-India Civil Space Joint Working Group that India’s first Mars mission is an “exciting opportunity for US-India collaboration.”
India’s mission may have lost some thunder after the successful landing of NASA’s Curiosity rover on Mars in August 2012 but it does show big thinking. The Americans are also hoping data collected by India will complement research expected to be conducted with a probe NASA will launch later this month, the Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution mission, nicknamed MAVEN.
So what, with data from Curiosity and six other rovers that have landed on Mars, can India’s new Mars orbiter add to the mix? Plenty, say US experts who point out that India’s Mars Orbiter mission will be equipped with a methane sensor and look for signs of past life.
“The time is now for many players to be doing many things across a much wider range of target goals than in the simple days of the moon race. It is not just playing a game, or showing off at the Olympics or something. It is actually making contributions to the world,” James Oberg, a space consultant in Houston, Texas earlier told Voice of America.
“We have seen the technology that India has brought to the space program, very significant technology, and the goals of the program appear to me to be very realistic and very important for India as well as the rest of the world,” Oberg added.
India’s space exploration program began in 1962. It pulled off a major coup in the international community with its first lunar mission. Five years ago, India’s Chandrayaan satellite found evidence of water on the moon for the first time. It was hailed as a significant scientific discovery.
India’s space program has managed to get a lot done, despite operating at a budget of $1.34 billion last year (by comparison, NASA’s 2013 budget is $17.7 billion). India’s space program has developed a successful satellite regime focused on improving the life of ordinary Indians.
The 3,400-kg GSAT-10 communication satellite, the heaviest ever built by India, was launched recently aboard an Ariane-5 rocket. The GSAT-10 will boost telecommunications, direct-to-home and radio navigation services by adding 30 much-needed transponders to India’s current capacity. India is currently leasing foreign transponders to meet domestic demand.
India’s self-reliant space program’s objectives include communication and education via satellite, management of natural resources through remote sensing technology, weather forecasting and development of indigenous satellites and satellite launch vehicles.
In August, India launched its first dedicated military satellite for naval intelligence gathering, amid mounting concerns about the Chinese naval presence in the Indian Ocean.

World looks on at Mars mission that could propel India ahead of space rivals | Firstpost

It is worth to note that India is among the only 11 nations which have ability to launch satellites on their own.

It is also among handful nations which have sent probe to moon and have multiple sta launching capacity.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QygQwAA&url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_agencies#List_of_space_agencies_with_launch_capability&ei=gZh7UszWGMySrgfX3YHoBA&usg=AFQjCNEdYM-zm0sHz0z00547lSNyDieJEg&bvm=bv.56146854,d.bmk

 

[MohitV]

My life? My life is infinitely better than you call centre lot I can assure you.


"Indian " Space Programme? what a joke. What do they do? painting? using our donated funds?

Technologically , India's mission of shooting a rocket (licenced old Soviet iPSLV) into sky is just like what a primitive African tribleman shooting an old Soviet's AK-47 into the sky, because neither has a faint clue where the rocket/bullet goes.

Beyond the earth , ISRO even doesn't know where the craft is or will be! Mars my foot.

India has NO deep space sensing and control tech, whatsoever, mind you!

This mission is technologically conducted by NASA . Only NASA, the Russians, the Chinese, ESA, and probably Japan have such a capability. The distance between China and India in Space is even larger than that of missiles or warplanes.


Financially, India shouldn't be allowed to waste money on this kind of primitive ego trips, at all. "Your" Space programme is indirectly funded by the cash donated to save your sorry low IQ starving people, not only by the UK taxpayers, but also by ALL European country taxpayers, every friggin year , since the end of WW2! The money is supposed to aim saving your sorry lifes and building some goddarnn toilets...


In fact, the amount of my income tax donated by my govt to India each year for humanitarian end mostly like contribute much more to "your" space programme (which you shameless people self-congradualte on and take full credits of) than most of your Indians here on PDF combined.

"your" space programme? You lying shamelss Indian!

That's why in web forums most Europeans are outragious when come to this waste.


Wake up! You should wish NASA best of luck instead.

Moreover, if you're really proud of the mission, probably you should also thank me instead, as we're at it, for my annual personal financial contribution donated by the EU to help funding this "Indian" mission amongst many others, and paying salaries to these shameless ISRO braggards.

again so mush of frustration.....dude dont u have anything to do in your life....just look at u wasting time writing all this jus bcoz a country launched a satellite ......nobody has time to read this......seriously get a life...get a gf....get a job...dun waste ur life like this......n plzzz dun reply back ....i have got no time for the likes of u...this conversation is over.....thank you

 

[Indo-guy]

you are just incapable and fail to comprehend simple text.

I was saying our deep space tracking was able to monitor our Lunar Rover Chang'e 2 which has travelled more than 50 million km since July, not the moon; kid!

I am surely pitiful for you cheerleaders of not being able to feed 100s of millions of your kids but spending millions to a planet without much immediate rewards just to show off your penniless egoes

You are harping on Chinese Deep space network tracking Change 2 at 50 million km while forgetting deliberately the fact that Indian deep space network have been upgraded recently to track Mars orbiter mission till whole of the 400 million km . NASA facilities will only add up to cover for 'blind spot' that exists ...There is nothing unusual or great about it !

Off course rabid India- haters like you will never understand ...

You guys are not able to digest the fact that country like India have launched own probe with own launcher ....well before China ....

You are only trying to create mountains out of molehills ...by trying to overplay NASA contribution ...

Shows the lack of dishonesty and integrity which is your cultural trait !!!

Stupids like you can't be cured of your hatred in anyway ...


Here are the people from country which only knows to steal from all around world ....trying to belittle achievement of India ....

It is rather funny ....

You are hypocrite of worst kind ....

Cry babies like you can't do anything better than whimper and throw tantrums ... !!! 

you are silly of failing to understand the whole point


without Russia or anyone in the nowadays space program, we can work independently and fulfill our missions, and sometimes beyond the expected targets (such as Chang'e 2)


I can't but stop laughing at your rants ...

You 'can' work independently ....but you 'are' not working independently .....

Your Shenzou is nothing but replica of ' Soyuz' bought off the shelf !



China's Spaceship Is Mainly Russian
by Richard Ingham

Paris (AFP)

Western experts are unimpressed by China's claims to have developed by itself the unmanned spaceship that took its maiden flight last weekend, saying the craft was born from a three-decade-old design bought from impoverished Russia.
Beijing trumpeted the 21-hour unmanned flight made by the Shenzhou ("Divine Vessel") spacecraft, aimed at making China the third country after the former Soviet Union and the United States to put a man in orbit.


American experts in particular are convinced that China, seeking a technological short cut, simply handed over a fistful of dollars to Moscow, whose experience in manned missions stretches back to 1961.
"It is likely that the Russians provided complete Soyuz capsules, with Russian parachute, reaction control and soft landing systems," writes Mark Wade on the specialist website Encyclopaedia Astronautica.
"These were then outfitted with Chinese avionics and instruments. The landing systems are among the most difficult to develop and the Chinese would have saved much time and money by just adopting the Russian solution."


"The Shenzhou is "a Soyuz to a very considerable extent. It's off the shelf, as it were," David Baker, editor of the British specialist publication Jane's Space Directory told AFP.
The capsule itself, as well as the launch escape system -- a rocket that wrenches the capsule free from the launcher and blasts it to safety if danger threatens during liftoff -- are "a total Soyuz lookalike," Baker said.
The collapse of the Soviet Union in December 1991 removed ideological barriers and provided a financial spur for Moscow or its "disenfranchised engineers" to sell coveted technology or skills to a former rival, he said.
The following year, the ground was laid for close cooperation when China's State Council directed that the country place a man in space by October 1999, in time for the 50th anniversary of the Communist revolution.
The US House of Representatives, in the so-called Cox Report earlier this year on the Chinese drive for technological prowess, said China purchased a number of Soyuz capsules during Russian President Boris Yeltsin's visit to Beijing in April 1996 "

China's Spaceship Is Mainly Russian

 

[Indo-guy]

you are silly of failing to understand the whole point

NASA has helped india big time esp in tracking and communication
you people are belittling nasa's assistance for blowing up the ability of your own mission

and I say it once again without nasa your mission is hot air

without Russia or anyone in the nowadays space program, we can work independently and fulfill our missions, and sometimes beyond the expected targets (such as Chang'e 2)



I can't but help stop laughing ....
you ' can' work independently ....but you 'are' not working independently ....

You are again and again turing to your big 'daddy ' - Russia for help in all key areas ....only to show off to world as your progress ...


China's Spaceship Is Mainly Russian


by Richard Ingham Paris (AFP) November 23, 1999 - Western experts are unimpressed by China's claims to have developed by itself the unmanned spaceship that took its maiden flight last weekend, saying the craft was born from a three-decade-old design bought from impoverished Russia.
Beijing trumpeted the 21-hour unmanned flight made by the Shenzhou ("Divine Vessel") spacecraft, aimed at making China the third country after the former Soviet Union and the United States to put a man in orbit.
An undated image from Chinese television footage shows a part of the experimental spacecraft at the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in northwest China's Gansu Province. The space craft, named 'Shenzhou' by President Jiang Zemin, is part of China's manned space flight program and has completed a short mission in space touching down in Inner Mongolia 21 November 1999. CCTV/AFP Photo
The vehicle was "completely indigenous" and the mission "another milestone in China's astronautical history," the state-controlled media declared.
But analysts appraising official pictures of the mission say the ship seemed little more than a slightly modified version of the old Soviet workhorse of space, the Soyuz.
American experts in particular are convinced that China, seeking a technological short cut, simply handed over a fistful of dollars to Moscow, whose experience in manned missions stretches back to 1961.
"It is likely that the Russians provided complete Soyuz capsules, with Russian parachute, reaction control and soft landing systems," writes Mark Wade on the specialist website Encyclopaedia Astronautica.
"These were then outfitted with Chinese avionics and instruments. The landing systems are among the most difficult to develop and the Chinese would have saved much time and money by just adopting the Russian solution."
The Shenzhou is "a Soyuz to a very considerable extent. It's off the shelf, as it were," David Baker, editor of the British specialist publication Jane's Space Directory told AFP.
The capsule itself, as well as the launch escape system -- a rocket that wrenches the capsule free from the launcher and blasts it to safety if danger threatens during liftoff -- are "a total Soyuz lookalike," Baker said.
The collapse of the Soviet Union in December 1991 removed ideological barriers and provided a financial spur for Moscow or its "disenfranchised engineers" to sell coveted technology or skills to a former rival, he said.
The following year, the ground was laid for close cooperation when China's State Council directed that the country place a man in space by October 1999, in time for the 50th anniversary of the Communist revolution.
The US House of Representatives, in the so-called Cox Report earlier this year on the Chinese drive for technological prowess, said China purchased a number of Soyuz capsules during Russian President Boris Yeltsin's visit to Beijing in April 1996.

China's Spaceship Is Mainly Russian

 

all those terms of "foolish" "idotic" "jealousy" blah blah blah only apply to you kid. are you suffering from mental blockade or heart burn repeating the same thing which I have given you answers above?

One example of outright Chinese copying is in the cabin pressure suits, used to protect the astronauts in case of an air leak during flight. The Russians introduced such a survival suit (called the Sokol) in 1972 after three cosmonauts died in an accidental cabin depressurization during their return to Earth. (A much more sophisticated suit is used for spacewalks.) The Chinese needed a suit with similar functions, so after obtaining samples of the Sokol design they copied it exactly, right down to the stitching and color scheme.
Chinese officials have made no secret of such technology transfers. A lengthy article on Chinese space plans appearing in the Xinhua News Agency’s magazine Liaowang in 2002 stated: “After China and Russia signed a space cooperation agreement in 1996, the two countries carried out very fruitful cooperation in docking system installations, model spaceships, flight control, and means of life support and other areas of manned space flight. Russia’s experience in space technology development was and is of momentous significance as enlightenment to China.”
The mention of docking systems is especially illuminating. Although Russia and the U.S. have used different types of docking mechanisms over the years to link spacecraft in orbit, photographs of Shenzhou indicate that the Chinese have chosen a Russian variant called the APAS-89. The device consists of a pressurized tunnel 80 centimeters in diameter surrounded by sloping metal petals that allow any two units of the same design to latch together. Originally developed for the Russian Mir space station, the APAS-89 is used to dock NASA’s space shuttles to the International Space Station (ISS). Although China is primarily interested in docking its spacecraft with its own small space stations, the decision to employ the APAS-89 mechanism allows Shenzhou to link with both the space shuttles and the ISS.

 

[Indo-guy]

Even if india is successful reaching Mars, I dont think their technology is ahead of us.

It has demonstrated the ability of our deep space communication and tracking of our Lunar probe. It also showed the accuracy of the spacecraft's closing in on a fly-by object in deep space in L2 and to take pictures there following instructions from the Earth's center 7 million km away!

Credit: knowqout.com

Credit：server.zol.com.cn



In July Chang'e 2 reached her 50 million km travel in deep space. I am pretty confident China can reach Mars if we want to.

The closest distance between Earth and Mars is 56 million km though the furthest is over 100 million km apart.

But you can see from the following illustrations and link that the most favourable distance between the two planets for space travel does not happen every year. So it makes sense for our previous Mars Mission to ride on a Russian rocket when they were planning to get there too!


Read more: Distance from Earth to Mars

Credit: above link

Beg, Borrow and Steal !!!


In 1994, Russia sold some of its advanced aviation and space technology to the Chinese. In 1995 a deal was signed between the two countries for the transfer of Russian Soyuz spacecraft technology to China. Included in the agreement was training, provision of Soyuz capsules, life support systems, docking systems, and space suits. In 1996 two Chinese astronauts, Wu Jie and Li Qinglong, began training at the Yuri Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center in Russia. After training, these men returned to China and proceeded to train other Chinese astronauts at sites near Beijing and Jiuquan. The hardware and information sold by the Russians led to modifications of the original Phase One spacecraft, eventually called Shenzhou

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_(spacecraft) 

all those terms of "foolish" "idotic" "jealousy" blah blah blah only apply to you kid. are you suffering from mental blockade or heart burn repeating the same thing which I have given you answers above?

Chinese are good enough only in stealing !

Read US Congressional report on Chineses espionage of Key technologies - Cox Committee report

welcome.html

 

[ptltejas]

The thread is about western especially America's views about this mission not India's..

well absolutely my fault.

 

[shuttler]

You are harping on Chinese Deep space network tracking Change 2 at 50 million km while forgetting deliberately the fact that Indian deep space network have been upgraded recently to track Mars orbiter mission till whole of the 400 million km . NASA facilities will only add up to cover for 'blind spot' that exists ...There is nothing unusual or great about it !

Off course rabid India- haters like you will never understand ...

You guys are not able to digest the fact that country like India have launched own probe with own launcher ....well before China ....

You are only trying to create mountains out of molehills ...by trying to overplay NASA contribution ...

Shows the lack of dishonesty and integrity which is your cultural trait !!!

Stupids like you can't be cured of your hatred in anyway ...


Here are the people from country which only knows to steal from all around world ....trying to belittle achievement of India ....

It is rather funny ....

You are hypocrite of worst kind ....

Cry babies like you can't do anything better than whimper and throw tantrums ... !!! 

all the above are repeats of your previous posts.. are you eating the same plate of curry everyday since birth?
again why are you cursing yourself all the time for your own mental and horrendous character difiiciencies?

also you people are so ungrateful trying to belittle nasa's importance in the mission
if they are unimportant why their acceptance of assistance is in the news? can you complete the mission without them?

One example of outright Chinese copying is in the cabin pressure suits, used to protect the astronauts in case of an air leak during flight. The Russians introduced such a survival suit (called the Sokol) in 1972 after three cosmonauts died in an accidental cabin depressurization during their return to Earth. (A much more sophisticated suit is used for spacewalks.) The Chinese needed a suit with similar functions, so after obtaining samples of the Sokol design they copied it exactly, right down to the stitching and color scheme.

We have never said we have not asked for Russia's assistance
We never said their contribution to the space suite as unimportant - unlike the cheerleaders
All space suit appear the same when looking from photos
The suits are made in China by our scientists
Your antenna, solar panels, shape of rockets ... all look like our Long March rockets too but you dont have the power
Did the Russians complain about our space suite theirs and asked for compensation?
Your jealousy, envy and fear of our technical advancement in obvious

Chinese officials have made no secret of such technology transfers. A lengthy article on Chinese space plans appearing in the Xinhua News Agency’s magazine Liaowang in 2002 stated: “After China and Russia signed a space cooperation agreement in 1996, the two countries carried out very fruitful cooperation in docking system installations, model spaceships, flight control, and means of life support and other areas of manned space flight. Russia’s experience in space technology development was and is of momentous significance as enlightenment to China.”
The mention of docking systems is especially illuminating. Although Russia and the U.S. have used different types of docking mechanisms over the years to link spacecraft in orbit, photographs of Shenzhou indicate that the Chinese have chosen a Russian variant called the APAS-89. The device consists of a pressurized tunnel 80 centimeters in diameter surrounded by sloping metal petals that allow any two units of the same design to latch together. Originally developed for the Russian Mir space station, the APAS-89 is used to dock NASA’s space shuttles to the International Space Station (ISS). Although China is primarily interested in docking its spacecraft with its own small space stations, the decision to employ the APAS-89 mechanism allows Shenzhou to link with both the space shuttles and the ISS.

1. who is the poor guy who claimed China does not have co-operations with other space agencies and who is that liar who is now eating his own foul words
2. The docking system is our technology. We operate it through our space control centers and our taikonauts inside of various indigenous spacecraft
3. the launching, orbiting, rendezvous, docking and locking system are owned by China. if the Russians said the technology belongs to them then come and get it back.
4. Have we purchased any of the systems from anywhere? We have done numerous researches, experiments, testings ,confrimations on the systems before they are launched onto space for our missions successfully, several times

you shameless and incapable people only open your foul mouths, keep on maligning our space capabilities and advancements and crying on your own cursing the dire lack of intellectual competence to achieve as good as we are.

Beg, Borrow and Steal !!!

that is your character from a failed state

In 1994, Russia sold some of its advanced aviation and space technology to the Chinese. In 1995 a deal was signed between the two countries for the transfer of Russian Soyuz spacecraft technology to China. Included in the agreement was training, provision of Soyuz capsules, life support systems, docking systems, and space suits. In 1996 two Chinese astronauts, Wu Jie and Li Qinglong, began training at the Yuri Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center in Russia. After training, these men returned to China and proceeded to train other Chinese astronauts at sites near Beijing and Jiuquan. The hardware and information sold by the Russians led to modifications of the original Phase One spacecraft, eventually called Shenzhou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_(spacecraft) 

you are just silly. cant you read and comprehend the text and the meaning of it? Have we denied the Russian's assistance in the development of our programs?

You always said Russians are your closest friends and ally. You should gain more than us on the transfer Russia's technology

Why you are still so much behind us, cheerleaders?

many indians are just born fouled mouths and incapable

Read US Congressional report on Ch
ineses espionage of Key technologies - Cox Committee report

they are the biggest wire-espionage operation of the world
we have been accused of these particularly on election years to ask for voite! They're B/S
all the time!
They may have stolen a lot from us before we know it

You have no grounds to argue but to rely on dirty words and unfound accusations on us to cover your own incapabilites

Take a look at this you illiterate and ill-tempered liar:

No doubt, China is ahead of us in space: ISRO chief | Pakistan Defence

 

[Srinivas]

There are manned missions after this which will make India space super power. India is not competing with China, India has its own unique set of goals and unlike china we do not imitate.
Once Indian Cryogenic engine is a success India will manufacture monster rockets which will be used for manned space missions.
Space market is close to 150 Billion dollars annually, India has the advantage in this field as it can do the missions at cheaper cost with highest success rate. It is India which is leading in remote sensing satellites and It will be India which will be leading in space launches at cheaper rates.

 

[wolfschanzze]

Anyways we got it right in the first launch guys, no country has got it right in first launch, so why this race? I am a STAR TREK fan " To boldly go where no man has ever gone before" Some countries want to construct space stations around earth , fine.Some countries explore space, both such endeavors Exploration and Construction benefits the whole earth. I want to see an Alien really , the question to answer "WE ARE NOT ALONE".all these petty fights mean nothing when we encounter anything other than human race.

 

[timetravel]

As I always told, India would be the biggest technology power humans have ever seen. the successful mars mission is just the tip of the mountain.

Remember they did it in a mere 15 months. Now match that.

 

[faithfulguy]

Regardless of who will be ahead in this space race in coming years, the important thing is winner, in any case will be an Asian Nation.

In the end that is what matters very much.

Actually, the winner is already America. India and China are just following American footsteps until one of these nations accomplish something that mankind had never done before. 

There are manned missions after this which will make India space super power. India is not competing with China, India has its own unique set of goals and unlike china we do not imitate.
Once Indian Cryogenic engine is a success India will manufacture monster rockets which will be used for manned space missions.
Space market is close to 150 Billion dollars annually, India has the advantage in this field as it can do the missions at cheaper cost with highest success rate. It is India which is leading in remote sensing satellites and It will be India which will be leading in space launches at cheaper rates.

Will India take space launch tech support calls for Space-X? 

The thread is about western especially America's views about this mission not India's..

Bull crap. This is Indian in America's view of India. Nothing to do with America's view. As long as you guys staff good English speaking tech support who know when to transfer calls to Americans, than we are happy with you guys.