Can anyone tell me why India and Pakistan don’t get along?

[Contrarian]

We as a people took shelter in Pakistan from Hindu bigotry and persecution thanks to your extremist saffron ideologies.

What a shame then. You people are being killed in the very shelter you took refuge in. by the fountainhead of Islamic terror!
Shias, Hazaras, then Christians ahmadis hindus. I wonder when Barelvi's become the next victims!

 

[Armstrong]

Yes, it is.

How the foOk does that make you a Kashmiri then ?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What a shame then. You people are being killed in the very shelter you took refuge in. by the fountainhead of Islamic terror!
Shias, Hazaras, then Christians ahmadis hindus. I wonder when Barelvi's become the next victims!

despite problems with some small number of sectarian trouble makers - on a broader level we still thank God for Pakistan and those who fought for our country.

Pakistani Nation was a long sought after Revolution. With the right leadership and effective policing, those that target communities on communal basis will not see the light of day.

 

[shbaziz]

What a shame then. You people are being killed in the very shelter you took refuge in. by the fountainhead of Islamic terror!
Shias, Hazaras, then Christians ahmadis hindus. I wonder when Barelvi's become the next victims!

Welcome, you dweller of Utopia! Never ever in the history of Pakistan there has been any conflict on public level as far as Christians, Hindus, Shias (including Hazara) are concerned. If Pakistanis were so bigoted, u wont see a Shia family being the most powerful political force (Bhutto Family). As far as incidents of terrorism are concerned, they naturally happening in countries occupied by US. In Iraq u see suicide blasts and similarly, u see there are incidents in Pakistan because of Afghanistan. Ahmedis are a separate case, many Muslims boycotted them and im sure u are perfectly ignorant of "atrocities" associated with Ahmedis. They have been declared non-Muslims by most of the Muslim countries and according to our constitution they are prohibited of using any attributes of Islam, They cant call themselves Muslims, cant use islamic terminologies for their religion. As far as general public in concerned, many just dont have dealings with them, as far as killings are concerned, Ahmedis too are accused of killing many workers of AMTKN..... Still u should know that Ahmedis are the most prosperous and wealthy community in Pakistan.

 

[Mercenary]

Its only the un-educated Indians and Pakistanis that don't get along.

 

[Contrarian]

Welcome, you dweller of Utopia! Never ever in the history of Pakistan there has been any conflict on public level as far as Christians, Hindus, Shias (including Hazara) are concerned. If Pakistanis were so bigoted, u wont see a Shia family being the most powerful political force (Bhutto Family). As far as incidents of terrorism are concerned, they naturally happening in countries occupied by US. In Iraq u see suicide blasts and similarly, u see there are incidents in Pakistan because of Afghanistan. Ahmedis are a separate case, many Muslims boycotted them and im sure u are perfectly ignorant of "atrocities" associated with Ahmedis. They have been declared non-Muslims by most of the Muslim countries and according to our constitution they are prohibited of using any attributes of Islam, They cant call themselves Muslims, cant use islamic terminologies for their religion. As far as general public in concerned, many just dont have dealings with them, as far as killings are concerned, Ahmedis too are accused of killing many workers of AMTKN..... Still u should know that Ahmedis are the most prosperous and wealthy community in Pakistan.

Well then. Its all set. No fault of Pakistan's at all. US is totally guilty!

despite problems with some small number of sectarian trouble makers - on a broader level we still thank God for Pakistan and those who fought for our country.

Pakistani Nation was a long sought after Revolution. With the right leadership and effective policing, those that target communities on communal basis will not see the light of day.

You can and should be happy and proud for the creation of your country. Just that if you give reasons of being in a bad situation in India as the reasons for being happy and proud, then im obliged to point out the truth.

 

[ajtr]

Its only the un-educated Indians and Pakistanis that don't get along.

reading through this thread makes it clear that only educated ones dont get along uneducated ones do get along coz they have other things in life to worry about.

 

[shbaziz]

Well then. Its all set. No fault of Pakistan's at all. US is totally guilty!

.

I am sure the day, the get out of Afghanistan, the menaces like terrorism brought with this invasion should also end.

 

[Dubious]

Yes, it is.

Meaning you are an Arien?

 

[The SC]

As simple as it might seem the difference is in the way of life, and for that, Pakistan has chosen moderate Islam, while Indians claim to be secularists, they are mostly extremist Hindus, so Islam's answer is obviously extremist too.

On the other hand all humans have the same basic needs and aspirations, but where the freedom of one starts the freedom of the other stops, that is called frontiers and respect (stemming from education!) is the fundamental condition on which all human can strive and live peacefully.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

You took a full round turn here. The confusing part for Pakistanis are that you claim IVC civilization due to the reason that it only lies in your boundary. It means ideologically you are not aligned with the IVCs further inheritances and if you believe that Ghouri and Ghazni turns out to be your hero who were not only invaders but actually destroyer of Vedic culture as well which was crux of IVC. So either made them hero or disown the claim on IVC.

Rest is whatever you want to keep the name is your choice but be on the side but atleast decide on which side you are.

you are not getting the point here. I was explaining the indian point of view to talon because she was not getting what you and roy was talking about.

Secondly i cannot speak for others but i am not confuse about my identity. my position is very clear. My primary identity is Islam and then come my nationality. So if there will be a clash between Islam and nationality then i will chose Islam over nationality then does it mean i cannot claim to be Pakistani because i consider myself Muslim before Pakistani? If some Muslim rulers committed atrocities in past then let you make sure that God will judge them according to it because he is fair and just in his judgement unlike us who are bias and read history through the eyes of Hindu or Muslim

I never said that IVC and their ideologies or ways of life were Islamic but their ways of life were ialso different to Hinduism. There were no clash of IVC and islam because Islam did not even exist during IVC period. No islam. No hinduism. No India. No Pakistan. No Muhammad bin Qasim. No gauri. No mughul. So i dont understand when you say that against India mean against IVC so either i would have to pick Pakistan or india because according to you india mean ideology of IVC and Pakistan mean ideology of Islam. The problem of you guys is that you are not happy either way, If some pakistani will claim to be the inheritor of IVC you will tell them no they are muslim arab and cannot claim IVS because their ideologies is islamic or arabic. If some Pakistani claim that they were Muslims who rule India/Hindus then you will remind them that they are liar and their ancestors were Hindus. Dude you guys also need to make up mind.

I again ask this simple question . let say you are Hindu and your one son is Muslim( converted from Hinduism) and the other son is Hindu then can not they both claim to be your children? Or only the Hindu son will get share in your inheritance and Muslim son will not be your son any more because his Islamic ideology is different than your Hindu ideology. Similarly if a native Chinese person convert into Islam then according to your logic he cannot claim of Chinese civilisation because they were different. You apply same concept to Muslim countries like Iran, Egypt and KSA then they all had civilisation, ideologies and ways of life in past which were completely different to Islam then according to your logic they should also have no claim over past history because their past practices contradict with their present beliefs.

Third IVS is not something we should fight over because its something gone long time ago and has been wipe out completely and worse we had no clue about their ways of life. If you guys feel happy to claim the exclusive ownership of IVS and believe that Pakistani people pop up on this land in 1947 then i personally have no problem with it because it don't change anything for me or you so i personally disown the claim of IVC if it make you happy

 

[Jade]

you are not getting the point here. I was explaining the indian point of view to talon because she was not getting what you and roy was talking about.

Secondly i cannot speak for others but i am not confuse about my identity. my position is very clear. My primary identity is Islam and then come my nationality. So if there will be a clash between Islam and nationality then i will chose Islam over nationality then does it mean i cannot claim to be Pakistani because i consider myself Muslim before Pakistani? If some Muslim rulers committed atrocities in past then let you make sure that God will judge them according to it because he is fair and just in his judgement unlike us who are bias and read history through the eyes of Hindu or Muslim

I never said that IVC and their ideologies or ways of life were Islamic but their ways of life were ialso different to Hinduism. There were no clash of IVC and islam because Islam did not even exist during IVC period. No islam. No hinduism. No India. No Pakistan. No Muhammad bin Qasim. No gauri. No mughul. So i dont understand when you say that against India mean against IVC so either i would have to pick Pakistan or india because according to you india mean ideology of IVC and Pakistan mean ideology of Islam. The problem of you guys is that you are not happy either way, If some pakistani will claim to be the inheritor of IVC you will tell them no they are muslim arab and cannot claim IVS because their ideologies is islamic or arabic. If some Pakistani claim that they were Muslims who rule India/Hindus then you will remind them that they are liar and their ancestors were Hindus. Dude you guys also need to make up mind.

I again ask this simple question . let say you are Hindu and your one son is Muslim( converted from Hinduism) and the other son is Hindu then can not they both claim to be your children? Or only the Hindu son will get share in your inheritance and Muslim son will not be your son any more because his Islamic ideology is different than your Hindu ideology. Similarly if a native Chinese person convert into Islam then according to your logic he cannot claim of Chinese civilisation because they were different. You apply same concept to Muslim countries like Iran, Egypt and KSA then they all had civilisation, ideologies and ways of life in past which were completely different to Islam then according to your logic they should also have no claim over past history because their past practices contradict with their present beliefs.

Third IVS is not something we should fight over because its something gone long time ago and has been wipe out completely and worse we had no clue about their ways of life. If you guys feel happy to claim the exclusive ownership of IVS and believe that Pakistani people pop up on this land in 1947 then i personally have no problem with it because it don't change anything for me or you so i personally disown the claim of IVC if it make you happy

In India, religion doesn’t take centre stage in person’s life. There are more important things that come before religion. For example: we are Indians first then Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims. There lies the difference on how an Indian and Pakistani think.

Nobody in India says Pakistanis cannot claim IVC. The problem is when Pakistani claim exclusive rights over IVC. As regarding your assertion on India and Hinduism at the time of IVC, you cannot be more wrong. The name India and Hinduism themselves were derived from the river Indus. The genesis of Hinduism can be directly traced to IVC.

Apologetics Press - The Ancient Origins of Hinduism

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

In India, religion doesn’t take centre stage in person’s life. There are more important things that come before religion. For example: we are Indians first then Sikhs, Hindus or Muslims. There lies the difference on how an Indian and Pakistani think.

When any kid born in muslim family, he listen adhan in his ear. He dont listen jai hind/Pakistan zinda bad . If religion was not centre stage in person life. We would have not witnessed the Hindu vs Muslim riots from partitions to Gujarat and still many mosque vs mandir vs churches conflicts which are purely religious conflict. You tell me why a Hindu should kill fellow Indian Muslim to take the revenge of death of Hindus or vice versa as happened in past. If nationality were before religion then this would never happen.

I heard many times in movie i am Indian before Muslim. I would not speak on behalf of Indian Muslim but i will speak on behalf of teaching of Islam. according to my understanding, Islam is not against nationalism within valid reasons. It is natural to love place of your birth but whenever there is any clash of nationalism vs Islam then Islam ask Muslim to be loyal to religion before land. Nations can do wrong things for national interests and religion don't accept wrong acts no matter who does it. Islam even ask you to oppose your father if he is on wrong side

The name India and Hinduism themselves were derived from the river Indus. The genesis of Hinduism can be directly traced to IVC.

Well Hinduism has not got any central figure upon whom it was founded and has combination of beliefs and practices from different sources. IVS is not the scared history of Hindus. Modern Hinduism has its origin in Vedic period (1500 BC to 500 BC).

When you say name India was derived from the river Indus. You are talking about India after partition or before partition? Is it include the region comprised present day Pakistan? when i used word india. I was talking about region/area of India after 1947.

 

[Bang Galore]

When any kid born in muslim family, he listen adhan in his ear. He dont listen jai hind/Pakistan zinda bad . If religion was not centre stage in person life. We would have not witnessed the Hindu vs Muslim riots from partitions to Gujarat and still many mosque vs mandir vs churches conflicts which are purely religious conflict. You tell me why a Hindu should kill fellow Indian Muslim to take the revenge of death of Hindus or vice versa as happened in past. If nationality were before religion then this would never happen.

I heard many times in movie i am Indian before Muslim. I would not speak on behalf of Indian Muslim but i will speak on behalf of teaching of Islam. according to my understanding, Islam is not against nationalism within valid reasons. It is natural to love place of your birth but whenever there is any clash of nationalism vs Islam then Islam ask Muslim to be loyal to religion before land. Nations can do wrong things for national interests and religion don't accept wrong acts no matter who does it. Islam even ask you to oppose your father if he is on wrong side

I agree with Jade, it's the religious obsession that differentiates many Indians from most Pakistanis. It is quite simply the one thing that makes you chaps almost impossible to relate to for most of us. When I first came on this forum, it was partly in a desire to connect to a Pakistani equivalent of myself (in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks). In the time since then, I have been made painfully aware that such a creature for the large part, simply does not exist. Even the most "liberal" Pakistani seems to have an outlook governed, even if only partially, by religion. For those of us who are largely indifferent to such religious pulls, it's an extremely difficult proposition to come to terms with. Even for those of us who are religiously inclined, it is almost never a case of being governed by that in everyday lives. Most of the people here on this forum from India almost certainly see themselves as Indians first & their religion somewhere down the line. Most Pakistanis here seem to carry the twin positions of being Muslim & Pakistanis almost equally & sometimes seem more Muslim than anything else. When a Muslim identity is so stressed as to be the prominent identity, then it becomes impossible for non-Muslims to relate to you regardless of their own interest or lack thereof in matters religious. That relation can only be established when a point of connection can be established which would mean to approach a situation as human beings, not as religious beings. Sadly, it has become more & more difficult to see such attitudes in this forum which is one of the reasons more & more Indians, including myself have grown more cynical about any real chances to improve relations between us.

 

[Icewolf]

I agree with Jade, it's the religious obsession that differentiates many Indians from most Pakistanis. It is quite simply the one thing that makes you chaps almost impossible to relate to for most of us. When I first came on this forum, it was partly in a desire to connect to a Pakistani equivalent of myself (in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks). In the time since then, I have been made painfully aware that such a creature for the large part, simply does not exist. Even the most "liberal" Pakistani seems to have an outlook governed, even if only partially, by religion. For those of us who are largely indifferent to such religious pulls, it's an extremely difficult proposition to come to terms with. Even for those of us who are religiously inclined, it is almost never a case of being governed by that in everyday lives. Most of the people here on this forum from India almost certainly see themselves as Indians first & their religion somewhere down the line. Most Pakistanis here seem to carry the twin positions of being Muslim & Pakistanis almost equally & sometimes seem more Muslim than anything else. When a Muslim identity is so stressed as to be the prominent identity, then it becomes impossible for non-Muslims to relate to you regardless of their own interest or lack thereof in matters religious. That relation can only be established when a point of connection can be established which would mean to approach a situation as human beings, not as religious beings. Sadly, it has become more & more difficult to see such attitudes in this forum which is one of the reasons more & more Indians, including myself have grown more cynical about any real chances to improve relations between us.

Indians are more religious than Pakistanis... Even I had a Indian Quran teacher she was very religious and kept stressing for a Ummah. My neighborhood didnt do the hijab/burqa thing, but the Indian was always pressuring her family to wear hijab, burqa, etc... This is why we stopped letting Indian immigrants into Pakistan a few years back